Posted on 10/31/2005 9:43:58 AM PST by neverdem
Police took Michael V. Pelletier’s loaded pistol while he browsed in a bookstore; David K. Ridley’s mistake was to change jackets in a mall parking lot, and Penny S. Dean’s encounter happened during a late-night constitutional on a city street.
Because the New Hampshire Constitution guarantees the right to bear arms — no license needed, unless the weapon is concealed — all three got their guns back within minutes, but the confrontations caused them unease.
“The bottom line is that this type of thing shouldn’t be happening in a state where (carrying a pistol) is perfectly allowed,” said Dean, a lawyer and consulting counsel to Gun Owners of New Hampshire, the gun-rights advocacy organization.
Dean, in a routine followed often in the 10 years she has lived on Warren Street in Concord, was taking a late-night walk on June 16. She was on Pleasant Street out by St. Paul School when state trooper Abbott Presby stopped his cruiser.
“He must have asked me six times for a driver’s license. Then he proceeded to ask what I was doing there and I kept asking him, ‘Are you detaining me?’” Dean said.
She didn’t have her driver’s license. She had a cellular phone, a credit card, her license to carry a concealed pistol and her Glock 23 in a nylon, neon-pink fanny pack.
Dean wrote a letter to state police Col. Frederick H. Booth citing her constitutional rights and complaining of her “detention” by Presby.
“Had I not vigorously, repeatedly and firmly asserted that I wanted to (be) released from this detention I could have been illegally held there indefinitely. I firmly believe that it was only after I explained to trooper Presby that I was an attorney that the impetus to release me awakened,” Dean wrote.
Three months later, state police Lt. Mark J. Myrdek responded, writing that a review of the incident had found Presby’s “actions and conduct were justified, lawful and proper.”
On March 27, 2004, at about 9:15 p.m., three police officers in uniform and two detectives in plain clothes converged on Michael Pelletier as he thumbed through a book at Barnes & Noble store in Manchester. Pelletier and his wife had marked their 11th anniversary with dinner, then gone to the bookstore, where his coat stayed in the car. He had forgotten the change in attire left visible the holstered Glock 30 pistol tucked into his belt at his back.
A shopper telephoned police.
Pelletier said the officers “basically grabbed me by the shoulder, disarmed me and took me out of the store. They ran my license and registration and the serial number on the gun and stood around lecturing me for 20 minutes. It was irritating, but at least I wasn’t arrested.
“What boggled my mind was that out of at least seven officers and dispatchers involved not one seemed to know that open carry is legal in New Hampshire and they basically treated this like they would a felony stop. . . . I wasn’t doing anything illegal. I was minding my own business and I think they could muster the ability to treat me with courtesy and respect in that situation,” said Pelletier, who lives in Merrimack and is a West Coast transplant drawn here by the Free State Project’s pick of New Hampshire in 2003 as the place to promote its minimal-government agenda.
Alan M. Rice of Brookline, the treasurer of the New Hampshire Firearms Coalition, has been dealing with gun use safety for 10 years. He is certified as an “instructor-trainer,” qualified to teach even the firearms instructors.
Commenting on what Pelletier has written on the Internet about his bookstore experience, Rice said, “I think he exercised extraordinarily poor judgment on that particular night (because) he had an open-top holster in the small of his back in an unconcealed fashion. . . .
“Most professionals do not carry a gun there because it’s hard to access the weapon and hard to retain the weapon if someone wants to take it away from you.”
Rice prefers holsters with retention features that thwart efforts to extract the handgun, and he advises students to place the belt holster at their right or left side, where it is protected by the arm.
As a firearms instructor, Rice views concealed-carry as “a good way to deter crime because they don’t know who is carrying.”
Though it is legal to carry a gun in plain view, “open-carry is not a bright idea,” Rice said. “You are a target. If someone comes in with criminal intent, the first thing he is going to do is neutralize any person with a weapon who can hurt him.”
Like Pelletier, David Ridley’s move to New Hampshire was inspired by the Free State Project. He came from Texas, which he described as having restrictive gun licensing laws.
“When you come to a place where the right is recognized by government and you’ve never had it before, it’s a right you want to celebrate. At the same time, if you don’t exercise the right, I think you will eventually lose it. So for me, open-carry is primarily a political thing,” said Ridley, who lives in Keene.
Ridley had changed jackets and was engrossed in lettering a placard on the hood of his car in a supermarket parking lot in Salem on March 21 when five police officers, responding to a citizen’s call, asked about the holstered Glock 19 on his hip.
“They said, ‘You alarmed a person who saw the gun.’
“When that is the situation, they have to respond to the call. I understand that, but what was wrong was when they started talking about arresting me when I hadn’t done anything illegal,” Ridley said.
In responding to a letter from Ridley, Salem Police Chief Paul T. Donovan wrote that his officers would continue to respond “with an open mind” when a complaint comes in about someone carrying a firearm.
“In this day and age where people have committed some very violent attacks using firearms, it is understandable that people who do not understand the values of law-abiding firearms owners run scared. We need to work at improving our image with those who don’t understand,” Donovan wrote.
And you can back up your speculation with the studies that support this?
In my experience, those that actually practice open carry usually do so on their own premises and not generally paraded on the metropolitan streets.
I'll agree that it isn't a 'bright idea' for anyone and everyone to carry openly just because they can. It shouldn't be, but it can sometimes be misconstrued as hostility in those areas unaccustomed to seeing armed civilians.
But I'll openly challenge any assertion that open carry is equivalent to wearing a "mug me" sign. I won't believe that armed people are intentionally mugged or robbed more often than unarmed.
Yes, saw a gun show and was quite glaringly aware that someone doing something stupid would end up hurt.
And the atmosphere was very cordial as well.
But I do admit having a bit of a 'lust' for the long guns there instead of the pistols.
It would be nice if people carrying were much more common.
However, living in NY state as I do, that is a bit of a pipe dream here at the moment.
So true. About three years ago I was driving on an interstate highway at dusk, when I passed what appeared at 65 mph to be a young man standing on the side of the road next to his broken down, beat up old car. As I looked in my rearview mirror, I saw no one else seemed to be pulling over to help him, so I pulled over, and backed up along the shoulder until I reached him. Mindful of the fact that people aren't always who/what they appear to be, and that I was a smallish woman alone in my car (a very unfashionable wood-sided station wagon), I pulled my trusty little KelTec P-32 out from my handbag pocket, and placed it on the passenger seat beside me -- in clear view, and within easy reach while not being threatening.
I rolled down the passenger side window a couple of inches as the fellow approached, and quickly established that he really was a 16 year old boy whose car had broken down while he was on his way to practice with some little rock band that he and some friends had put together. I rolled down the window further, and lent him my cell phone, at which point he clearly noticed the gun, and tried unsuccessfully not to look alarmed. First he called his mom, but she wasn't home and he just left a message that his car had broken down. Then he called one of his band friends, who said he'd come pick him up. The kid was clearly ready at this point to part ways with the lady-with-the-gun, but I insisted he first call his mom again, and leave a message with his precise location, and the info that he was expecting his friend to pick him up shortly. Then I went on my way.
I've always wondered what this kid said later to his mom and to his band buddies. At any rate, I know he went away with a new concept of what middle aged ladies in wood-sided station wagons may be carrying around with them. Hopefully the experience nudged him in the direction of becoming a pro-RKBA voter. At least he knows first hand that people who routinely carry guns aren't all criminals, and that some are nice ladies who stop to help when they see a teenager stranded with a broken down car.
"Relax Darkshear, relax. If you stay worked up like this your reading comprehension levels will drop even lower."
Nice attempt at an insult.
If you were truly interested in actual discussion, you wouldn't feel the need to make personal attacks.
Thanks, no further correspondence with you is necessarry.
I doubt an open carrier would get mugged, but I expect they get their guns stolen from them a lot more often than concealed carriers. "Grab and run" is the likely scenario, not "grab and stick around and try to use it".
Take a pill, man. Mr. Rice simply fell back to his training, it was poor judgement on Mr. Pelletier's(SP) part and if he thinks about it, he'll agree.
That type of holster in the small of your back is extremely difficult to maintain weapon retention. Even the article says that the police came up behind him and disarmed him.
"Take a pill, man. Mr. Rice simply fell back to his training,"
Another who has to insult while saying nothing new.
Mr. Rice has never heard of 'deterrent'.
If deterrence didn't work, whuy do we have a standing Army and Navy?
Why did we have ICBM's if deterrencec didn't work?
Mr. Rice needs to brush up on 'deterrence'.
And he needs to brush up on NH law.
Cool site, thanks.
What is "BZ"????
Short for "Big Z"
or "Bravo Zulu"
The Big Z is the Admiral Zumwalt award for excellence....
unless the writer is referring to "Battle Zero" on a Main Battle Rifle....
Top sends
No "attempt" involved.
If you were truly interested in actual discussion, you wouldn't feel the need to make personal attacks.
And if you were you would have discussed the facts. Instead you set the tone *sniffle sniffle* with implied insults based on errant conclusions about both the article and my opinions. Until my prior post I pushed the facts; you know, those things you side stepped in order avoid discussing the point? Of course, if you don't like it you can always take your keyboard and go home.
Thanks, no further correspondence with you is necessary.
Ahh, well, so you have. My gratitude is yours.
I'm guessing it would be a birth control pill - to stop those cows DS keeps having...
Yes, attempt is correct.
If you cannot discuss anything without insulting, then this is not the forum for you.
I did not insult you, you had no business or reason to attempt insults or personal attacks.
Again with the insults.
I have stated my case plainly. Any time you want to actually discuss it feel free.
What gratitude?
You were trying to be insulting, repeatedly.
I have stated my case plainly. Any time you want to actually discuss it feel free.
And I stated mine, to which you felt the need to make personal attacks and make an attempt to be insulitng.
Good policy isn't made based on speculation.
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