Posted on 10/29/2005 7:25:40 AM PDT by vrwc0915
It appears there is hard evidence to prove that employers are using the H-1B visa program to hire cheap labor; that is, to pay lower wages than the national average for programming jobs.
According to “The Bottom of the Pay Scale: Wages for H-1B Computer Programmers — F.Y. 2004,” a report by Programmers Guild board member John Miano, non-U.S. citizens working in the United States on an H-1B visa are paid “significantly less than their American counterparts.” How much less? “On average, applications for H-1B workers in computer occupations were for wages $13,000 less than Americans in the same occupation and state.”
Miano based his report on OES (Occupational Employment Statistics) data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics which estimates wages for the entire country by state and metropolitan area. The report’s H-1B wage data came from the U.S. Department of Labor’s H-1B disclosure Web site.
Miano went out of his way to be balanced, and whenever possible he gave the benefit of the doubt to the employer. For example, he used OES data from 2003 because this is the wage information that would have been available to the employers when filing an LCA (labor condition application).
Miano had some difficulty matching OES job codes with LCA job titles, which employers typically create. Where both the OES and the LCA listed a job as “programmer/analyst,” Miano took the conservative approach of assuming that the LCA was describing a programmer, a job title that typically earns a lower wage than a systems analyst.
Nonetheless, Miano’s report shows that wages paid to H-1B workers in computer programming occupations had a mean salary of $52,312, while the OES mean was $67,700; a difference of $15,388. The report also lists the OES median salary as $65,003, or $12,691 higher than the H-1B median.
When you look at computer job titles by state, California has one of the biggest differentials between OES salaries and H-1B salaries. The average salary for a programmer in California is $73,960, according to the OES. The average salary paid to an H-1B visa worker for the same job is $53,387; a difference of $20,573.
Here are some other interesting national wage comparisons: The mean salary of an H-1B computer scientist is $78,169, versus $90,146 according to the OES. For an H-1B network analyst, the mean salary is $55,358, versus the OES mean salary of $64,799. And for the title “system administrator,” there was a $17,478 difference in salary between the H-1B mean and the OES mean.
H-1B visa workers were also concentrated at the bottom end of the wage scale, with the majority of H-1B visa workers in the 10-24 percentile range. “That means the largest concentration of H-1B workers make less than [the] highest 75 percent of the U.S. wage earners,” the report notes.
While it would be difficult to prove that any one particular employer is hiring foreign workers to pay less, the statistics show us that, for whatever reason, this is exactly what is happening on a nationwide basis. Miano says lobbyists will admit that a small number of companies are abusing the H-1B program, but what he has found in this research is that almost everyone is abusing it.
“Abuse is by far more common than legitimate use,” he says.
$1000 PCs if that is what it takes to keep this Nation intact.
No they pay others below market wages to do that for them!
No they wont. Nike shoes are still over $100 despite costing them a good $5-$10 to be made and shipped here from some foreign sweat shop.
i'm not saying it's good or bad, but if this doesn't happen this task will be totaly outsourced overseas, but then again if that happens it will be $200 pc's
And if we sent all production overseas and brought in cheap immigrant labor to do everything, think of how cheap everything could be. Of course 10 cents might as well be 10,000 dollars if no Americans have any jobs and can't make any money. And if you think the idea of an American nobility living high on the hog with immigrant serfs doing all the work, I suggest reading some Byzantine history. Let's just say that Hagia Sophia didn't always have those minarets out front and the canons that smashed Istambul's walls was simply the end-game of a much longer process that bears an eerie resemblance to modern attitudes toward cheap immigrant labor.
B'zzzt! Incorrect.
Cynicom appears to be making the straighforward claim that Bush is already intervening in the labor markets...and on the side of those employers who wish to game the market. It is a pointed questioning of the orientation of the President. Whose side is he on?
Your presentation makes it clear that your bias is presumptively for employers, irregardless of the legality of what they are doing. Every single H-1B visa they sign off on they are making an affidavit that the hire will not be at less than the prevailing wage. They are lying en masse and the administration is doing nothing to enforce the law. Just like illegal immigration.
Hence, it is an affirmative act of negligence on the Administrations part. An express INTERVENTION in the "market" which is supposed to be governed by those immigration rules already set down in well-established and long-standing LAW. Deliberate, willful, malfeasance.
The administration honchos have probably made some sort of politcal "triangulation" assumption that ALL these folks will vote disproportionately GOP. Or that the campaign money from the benefited special interest group makes it all worth it. NOT! As the illegals have shown, it 'ain't happening, McGee!' Anyways, it is never appropriate to compromise core principals for temporary political expediency. Reagan never did. He never wavered on what he believed and espoused...no matter what tactical compromises for a specific bill were deemed necessary. Bush has rather contrarily, done quite a number of flips and flops trying to sound conservative, while governing as a liberal. [Not a single veto to date!] And then when he has done his compromise, he calls it a "good bill" and CASTIGATES conservative criticism with liberal invective. [ Short list: "uneducated" "glass-ceiling-enforcers" "miserly" "sexist" "anti-immigrant" "vigilantes", etc., etc. ]. He appears to compromise his principles on an ad hoc basis, not just his tactics.
That's what they call "moderation" in his camp nowadays, I guess.
He has so befouled his own nest with his scheming machiavellian political manipulations...always sliding further down to the Left...not to mention an unseemly amount of croneyism... that the core of the solidly conservative pundits, such as Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, and Bill Bennet etc....while trying to "stay onboard" have made questioning comparisons openly between him and such abysmal political failures as Richard M. Nixon and Warren G. Harding.
Anyways, all that being said, as a general prefatory commentary on the political mistakeness of your ideas...(as embodied in GW Bush policies)...that is not the end of the problems your position entails for us. There is clearly one directly-implicated issue you manifestly have not considered. National Security. And even if you did, it seems likely your employer bias would overwhelm any such appraisal.
Perhaps you didn't catch this little item?
Four Held in U.S. Over China Military Plot: Report
By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE, HONG KONG, November 5th, 2005
FBI agents in Los Angeles have arrested four people with ties to Hong Kong for allegedly trying to smuggle sensitive material on U.S. military technology to mainland China, a press report said Nov. 4.
The material included research into silent propulsion systems for U.S. warships, a technology that is banned from export to China, the South China Morning Post reported, citing an FBI affidavit.
The four, all ethnic Chinese, allegedly planned to steal secrets from a defense contractor where one of them worked and transport the information to the southern Chinese city of Guangzhou on encrypted CDs, the newspaper said.
One of the four, Mak Tai-wing, and his wife were arrested at Los Angeles International Airport last Friday night as they were about to board a Cathay Pacific flight leaving for Hong Kong around midnight.
The two others, Mak’s brother Mak Chi, and his wife, Rebecca Chiu Lai-wah, were arrested at their home, the paper said.
A spokeswoman at Hong Kong’s Security Bureau declined to comment while the department was checking on the report.
The paper said an FBI affidavit states that Mak Tai-wing, a permanent U.S. resident, is the broadcast and engineering director for Phoenix North American Chinese Channel, which broadcasts programmes in the United States.
Phoenix television is headquartered in Hong Kong.
The newspaper said Mak Chi is a lead project engineer at a defense contractor, Power Paragon, on a research project involving Quiet Electric Drive (QED) technology for use aboard U.S. Navy warships.
"QED is an extremely sensitive project," the FBI was quoted as saying. The U.S. navy considers it "significant military equipment" and the U.S. bans its export to most countries.
The FBI also alleges Chi was planning to smuggle other secrets to China and that they found in his home shredded documents printed in Chinese, one of which instructed Chi to gain information on a number of military technologies including space-based military systems, the paper said.
Mak Chi was ordered held without bond. Li Fuk-heung was scheduled to appear in court at a bail hearing Thursday evening, and Mak and Chiu are scheduled for bond hearings on Saturday.
If convicted, each of the four could face prison terms of up to 10 years plus fines, the paper said.
COMMENT: This QED and the DDX is an important part of the next generation weaponry for the next century. And China intends to be the dominant military power. No ifs and no buts.
The DDX program just dodged one bullet in China's proactive efforts to preemptively neutralize the mutiple tactical technology advantages the new super-destroyer offers...before it is ever launched. But so long as we continue to allow Chinese Nationals into our tech firms...and to remain there, (the guy was likely originally an H-1B immigrant)... this is a losing battle. Their strategy is to "flood the zone" with numerous "students" and "willing employees" for "willing employers".
The evidence is already there for all to see in Ohio, as one example. Human Events just analyzed the situation there and finds it exceedingly grim.
Miano needs to compare H1B salaries against the Prevailing Wage, not the OES. That is what the Dept. of Labor uses.
You missed the entire point of the article. To put it simply the current definition of an H-1B visa is that it is supposed to be used for one purpose only - to satisfy the need to hire workers when their is a "shortage".
Nothing in the legislation defines shortages based on what a company is willing to pay. So lets be honest about what an H-1B visa is as it is currently being used. It is simply a way to change the supply and demand ratio for a specific worker in this country thereby changing what the rate of pay is. It has nothing to do with shortages which is the way it is being defined and hence being passed via Congress.
Which is the point of the article.
$1000 PCs if that is what it takes to keep this Nation intact.
if you artificialy kept the price at a $1000 when it should be $400, in the long run you will have a failed republic, both economicaly and politicaly.
There are qualifiers behind the "no qualified US citizen." For an H1B, unlike green card labor certification, there are no advertising requirements. The posting and notice requirements are very minimal for an H1B. Just posting the notice in the company lunch room and on their website is all that's needed. The proof is that the company is paying the prevailing wage for the job classification as established by the Dept. of Labor and that's basically it. An employment based green card is a different animal with very specific advertising requirements, including national trade journals and an audit trail of Americans interviewed. I'm speaking from experience since I am on an H1B (and getting about 35% more than the prevailing wage) and am being sponsored for a green card. I'm not a tech worker, but I have heard of the abuses in that employment sector. I'm a research scientist with some very specific skills and abilities that are few an far between. At the research end of things, there is a great deal of specialization that does limit the field of qualified candidates, just like there is in the medical field. Foreign nurses can get a green card without even having to test the labor market because of shortages, for example.
There are requirements that the employer has to demonstrate (i.e. they really do exists and they have the ability to pay the wage). Annual reports are typical as well as supplying the empoyer's tax ID. There are 'living room' shops, but a hired emplee on H1B has to work for the sponsoring employer, and not be contracted out. That's where the big abuses come from.
WTF???!!!
I've seen some of our greatest minds driven out of our company by the side effects of outsourcing.
Perhaps things are different on the East Coast
but I repectfully suggest you really know nothing about what's going on out west.
You know this from personal experience, or you just taking obsolete "accepted wisdom" as gospel-writ?
Perhaps this is news to you:
LOOK: Nation's Restaurant News
Oct 18, 2004
Food price inflation: the perfect storm for distributors, operators
By Caroline Perkins
According to the IFMA 2004 Forecast Outlook report, foodservice sales are projected to grow 2.6 percent in inflation-adjusted, or real, terms in 2005. Furthermore, operators surveyed by Chicago-based Technomic for the forecast say same-store sales are up, and the industry appears to be recovering.
Coupled with that optimism, however, is the prediction that profits will grow by only 1 percent next year because margins are being squeezed by the rising costs of doing business. So what else is new?
Well, the significant effect of food cost inflation for one. Increases in the costs of insurance, health-care coverage, fuel and labor have been exacerbated by hikes in the cost of food from producers at an across-the-board rate of 6 percent to 7.5 percent.
For instance, the U.S. Department of Agriculture's August numbers showed a 16-percent increase in the price of beef since 2003, along with increases of 17 percent for poultry and 13 percent for dairy items.
For many years the conventional wisdom has been that distributors were not able to raise prices because their operator customers could not or would not raise menu prices. That scenario is history.
At the most recent IFMA Forecast & Outlook Seminar, Technomic revealed that now, unlike last year, when labor was the issue, the cost of food is the top concern among operators. Seven in 10 operators surveyed said costs are rising significantly. Two-thirds had raised menu prices an average of 4 percent in the last six months, and close to half expected another hike of 3 percent in the next six months.
As for manufacturers, Technomic reported that a big part of its sales growth has been a result of price increases. Real sales growth has not been robust. Nearly eight out of 10 manufacturers raised prices to distributors by an average of 6 percent and expect additional increases in the future. In fact, prices have risen so rapidly that some distributors say it is hard to keep up with pricing changes in their systems.
There are two ways to fight food cost increases: by trading down to lower-priced substitutes or by cutting costs elsewhere to meet the increases. However, there are Catch 22s throughout the supply chain with both of those solutions.
While distributors can work with customers to come up with lower-priced menu solutions, many operators are locked in by their own success. A steakhouse still has to serve steak, and chains have to offer their traditional menus or risk losing patrons.
The seriousness of the impact of food inflation on distributors was illustrated by Sysco's fiscal-year-end results. While sales and earnings had increased, sales were softened by "prolonged product inflation of 6.3 percent." The problem with experiencing both fuel- and food-cost inflation simultaneously is that both directly affect the profitability of distributors and operators.
The only logical solution is to increase revenues. Let's hope same-store sales keep going up despite recent dips in consumer confidence and disposable personal income.
Of course, consumers are affected by rising costs as well, especially in the price of gasoline. Technomic reported that 66 percent of consumers are driving less, and 68 percent are cutting spending elsewhere. Seven in 10 are spending less when they eat out. Higher-priced menu items won't be incentives to increase customers' number of dining experiences.
As Technomic's Bob Goldin noted: "Operators and distributors are facing the perfect storm relative to cost pressures. The only positive sign is that business is reasonably robust. [Increasing sales] is the only solution."
But the sponsoring employer can be the living room shop. Don't believe me? Well, I've met people who got their H1B this way. Believe me, it does happen.
You got that right! The only loyalty a free traitor has is to the almighty dollar!
Excellent analogy.
The Byzantines outsourced their sea going trade to the Venetians. Result ? The Fourth Crusade and the sack of Constantinople by these same Venetians.
Ohio is a key Republican state that Bush carried by the skin of his teeth. Had Kerry ignored the consultants and run harder on economic populism there would probably be American troops in Clichy sur Bois right now. A party combining economic and cultural populism could dominate American politics.
> I love Capitalism. I hate robbery.
What everybody has to remember is that the free market only exists when the government does not give an unfair advantage to one party or another. When the government makes special exceptions to immigration policy for certain jobs, the government is distorting the market. Free traitors are too simpleminded to understand this. They are addicted to the simplistic dream that open borders solve everything.
You are misinformed.
I have previously given an example of a large pool of these visas: faculty at major universities. When the best are being sought, foreigners are often the ones. Moreover, the native-born Americans indeed do not want to do this job and go through hardships to get them,.
Moreover, you assume that it is easy to apply for H1-B visa. It is not, and both wait and bureaucracy are involved. It is simply not worth it to save $10,000-$20,000/year on a programmer from oversees.
They are lying en masse Since you have no evidence for your blanker accusation, I can only assume that you are judging but what YOU would do in a similar situation. When I hired people, I certainly did not and never would circumvent the law. Would you? Judging by how easily you accuse thousands of people, you probably would.
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