Posted on 10/28/2005 2:11:25 PM PDT by Crackingham
The man had been attending a Methodist church in South Hill, Va., for several months. He sang in the choir. He owned a business and was well known in the community. But when he asked to become a formal member of the church, the pastor turned him down, because he is gay.
Those are the bare facts of a case that has split a 650-member congregation in southern Virginia and that threatens to divide the 8 million-member United Methodist Church, the nation's second largest Protestant denomination.
Yesterday in Houston, the Methodists' highest court heard an appeal from the pastor of South Hill United Methodist Church, the Rev. Edward Johnson. He was placed on unpaid leave after he rejected entreaties from his immediate supervisor and his bishop to admit the gay man, who has not been named by church officials and has declined to talk about the case.
Nationally, the Methodist Church prohibits "self-avowed, practicing homosexuals" from serving as ordained ministers. But it has declared that gay men and lesbians are "persons of sacred worth" and has repeatedly said there are no bars to their participation as lay people.
"The theme of our church for five years now has been 'Open Hearts. Open Minds. Open Doors.' The issue here is, 'Are we really open or not?' " said the Rev. W. Anthony Layman, who was Johnson's district superintendent when the pastor was removed in June by a 581 to 20 vote of fellow ministers in the church's Virginia conference.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
He was participating. He was singing, and sitting, IN THE BUILDING, hearing God's Word. He was not rejected from that. He was not accepted to be a MEMBER. He was given the opportunity to renounce his sin, but chose to remain in it.
In another thread, there is an update. It says the pastor will likely be re-instated...
Jesus told the harlot, "go and sin no more".
Stretching a little, aren't you? Homosexual behavior is an open sin. When confronted with the opportunity to disavow that behavior, he refused, and gave up his rights to be part of the body. They did not ask him to leave, they just did not recognize him since he was/is unrepentent...
I don't know who cheats on taxes, or who has athyroid conditions. My sister is 5'0' and weighed 206 pounds, until the docs stapled her stomach, and offered her some pharmaceuticals. She had it done 7 years ago. She now weighs 125-130... and eats like a bird... which she did, before the surgery.
So God hates you everytime you sin?
Remember, there is a difference in "attending" church and being a baptized member of the church. Anyone can come in and be preached to and spend time with the congregation, but that isn't the same as being a member of the body of Christ.
I doubt No Longer Free State gets it - he wants the church to accept this homo who could care less about repentence.
My advice is dont waste your time - apparantly No Longer Free State is convinced that the church (which I believe he does not belong to one) is required to accept and approve of all behaviors and lifestyles. Ask him about hating the sin and not the sinner and watch No Longer Free State go ballistic.
Question for No Longer Free State how do you hate the sin?
He also probably believes that the constitution is living document and that we are required to change according to the will of unelected judges.
God is Holy. He can hate you and love you at the same time. He can hate you without any sinful intent, because He alone is good and righteous. He can love you so much that he would allow his only begotten son to be slaughtered. He can hate you just as much...without out any malice.
Precisely not my point. God hates every sin you enact. Loves you all the while. Great system, if you hold up your end and regret the sin.
I couldn't possibly have made myself more clear, but your sanctimony and literal 'holier than thou' attitude blind you to it. Homosexual acts are sins and should be repented. The guy in question should be allowed into the church in the hopes he'll realize that some day. Any more stupid questions like 'how do you hate sin'? How do YOU hate sin - quick, without quoting scripture?
"My son, preserve sound judgement and discernment. Never let them out of your sight. They will be life to you, an ornament to grace your neck." Proverbs 3:21&22
Sound judgement. Biblically sound judgements are quite acceptable, and even encouraged. Without them, many of Paul's letters, and nearly all attempts at evangelizing would be rendered irrelevant. We are taught to weigh everything against scripture to see if it adds up.
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness" ~ 2Tim 3:16
One cannot be rebuked, taught, trained, or corrected unless an elder, more mature believer sees (judges!) where the weaker brother needs it.
One cannot even bring the gospel to a lost sinner unless he/she makes a discerned judgement regarding that individual's need.
Acceptable, sound, Biblical judgement: "What you're doing/saying, and/or how you're living is against what God says in the Bible."
Unacceptable judgement: "You're going to hell for what you've done."
See the difference?
Paul's letters to the Corinthians were an open rebuke for the sin that they allowed to creep into their midst. He judged what they had allowed to happen. I would venture it was the Church's LACK of discernment or judgement that enabled the sin to enter in the first place.
Which of the two scenarios shows more love:
1) Seeing a neighbor living in unrepentant, blatant, and offensive sin, and showing him the Truth of the Word of God so that he might leave his disastrous lifestyle and cling to Christ for his salvation, or
2) Seeing a neighbor living in unrepentant, blatant, and offensive sin, and saying/doing nothing about it.
If I hated my neighbor, I'd keep quiet and not say a word.
If I loved my neighbor, I'd want to see them live forever.
ps - St. Peter isn't a judge - God and God alone judges men. To suggest otherwise is contradictory to scripture.
Sorry, you lost me at "
No, that's not a typo
You and Rope need to get together. You are saying opposite things.
It's too bad that the Word of God offends you, but the Truth still exists whether you choose to accept it or not.
You can't claim to be a Christian, and ignore His Word at the same time.
I suggest you re-read post 313. ItsOurTimeNow tried to explain it to you but you refuse to accept that you are wrong. Your emotion gets the best of you, too bad. I am guessing here, but it would benefit you to go to a bible believing church, I think from your answers that perhaps you do not attend church and are making such statements based solely on emotion and what others have told you. Statements like "hate the sin and not the sinner" are not from the bible and individuals like yourself appear to get caught up in what you think the bible says and not what it really does. Your emotion rules your thought; not truth in doctrine.
He's already admitted in forum that he doesn't quote scripture ("No, I don't quote scripture. I don't need scripture as a crutch for a logical argument in a discussion"). Other comments suggest that he see's scripture as invalid or useless (his challenge for someone to explain their position "without using scripture").
To him - scripture is a "crutch" and he relies on the "logic" of man.
If he does not recognize the authority of God's Word, then I think it's safe to say that he does not attend a Bible-believing church (if he attends at all), and I would certainly question whether or not he is even saved. I can't see someone saying such things if they are truly regenerated and indwelled with the Holy Spirit.
Fits the profile of a Unitarian (Spiritualist/Mystic) to a 'T'.
I agree. BTW you post 313 was excellent - it doesnt surprise me that closet liberals like No Longer Free State when confronted with the truth will claim they cant understand your argument. Im done wasting my time on this one.
Thank you - when one is armed with the Truth, all debate is easy.
We have to remember that we all used to feel the way he does, at one point in our lives. My pre-regenerative philosophy on life was very universalist, very liberal, very non-judgemental, non-discerning, we-all-worship-the-same-god-and-all-truth-is-relative nonsense.
Pray for them and their "ministries".
I thank the Lord daily for saving me from such darkness of thought and ignorance of thinking. I knew no other way until He opened my eyes and showed me the light of His Truth.
"O to grace how great a debtor
Daily I'm constrained to be!
Let that grace now like a fetter,
Bind my wandering heart to Thee."
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