Posted on 10/28/2005 2:11:25 PM PDT by Crackingham
The man had been attending a Methodist church in South Hill, Va., for several months. He sang in the choir. He owned a business and was well known in the community. But when he asked to become a formal member of the church, the pastor turned him down, because he is gay.
Those are the bare facts of a case that has split a 650-member congregation in southern Virginia and that threatens to divide the 8 million-member United Methodist Church, the nation's second largest Protestant denomination.
Yesterday in Houston, the Methodists' highest court heard an appeal from the pastor of South Hill United Methodist Church, the Rev. Edward Johnson. He was placed on unpaid leave after he rejected entreaties from his immediate supervisor and his bishop to admit the gay man, who has not been named by church officials and has declined to talk about the case.
Nationally, the Methodist Church prohibits "self-avowed, practicing homosexuals" from serving as ordained ministers. But it has declared that gay men and lesbians are "persons of sacred worth" and has repeatedly said there are no bars to their participation as lay people.
"The theme of our church for five years now has been 'Open Hearts. Open Minds. Open Doors.' The issue here is, 'Are we really open or not?' " said the Rev. W. Anthony Layman, who was Johnson's district superintendent when the pastor was removed in June by a 581 to 20 vote of fellow ministers in the church's Virginia conference.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
You still don't understand do you. The minister did not approve of his membership because the homosexual in question did not show repentance. The UMC Book of Discipline does not require pastors to receive unconditionally everyone who presents himself or herself for church membership. This is going to their court because of an unrepentant sinner question, not just because he had committed sodomy.
If you and others like you masturbate constantly on your keyboard, but you are truly remorseful, I am confident that the United Methodist Church will take you in.
Like taking candy from a baby!
:-]
ROTFLOL!!!!
"The minister did not approve of his membership because the homosexual in question did not show repentance"
Okay, one last post. How many people who masturbate (I'm talking about church members) do you really think repent their conduct? I imagine there are very few. Most people don't think it's a big deal. But these same people (unrepentent sinners) are not denied membership in church. Why should unrepentent homosexuals be treated any differently? Are we rating sins of the flesh on a scale of 1 to 10? I just believe there's a lot of hypocrisy when it comes to sexual sins. This minister picked on one person to enforce this membership test. I believe his actions were wrong. I'm glad the vast majority of ministers agree with me.
Is that why you keep trying to have the last word?
In any case your arguments are idiotic and you have yet to address any of my challenges.
Your comparison of fat people to sexual perverts is pathetic.
How do you know the masturbaters aren't repentant? How does the minister know? The homosexual apparantly was telling members of the congregation he was in sin. He had no remorse for it. Did you read the quote from the UMC website?
We all sin. The Bible teaches that we are all going to do it, but as Christians we are taught "keepeth his commandents".
This word keep is a word that means to "direct your path" as in navigation by the stars. The eth means continually.
If you continually keep your path on God's word, you will steer clear of sin. We all falter, but we are assured that we can go back to the right path by steering towards God.
Is this homosexual willing to take the next step and come to repentance for his sin?
I have a way of praying that I'll share with you.
First I thank God for each day, I thank him for provision, I then ask for protection and good health for my family. Then I ask for protection of our troops, president, and our country. I pray for the church (all believers). I then ask God to forgive me when I fail him. I ask for forgiveness even though I know I am saved. I ask for forgiveness because I know I am weak.
It takes time, but I have slowly become a stronger Christian than I was before. This is what this Minister wants for this man and for his congregation. Open rebellion is not what the church is about.
How many "masturbators" would go up to other church members and brag about Jacking Off during the previous month. None. Because the're embarrassed and ashamed of it.
On the other hand, this particular "Rump Ranger" is proud of his activity and thinks there is nothing wrong with it, despite the clear and strong Biblical prohibitions against such behaviour.
This unrepentant Homosexual should be ministered to and Prayed for but should not be formally admitted into the Church Fellowship until such time that he Repents of his Sin and turns from his ways.
Sinning is ok if kept behind closed doors.
Yeah, I agree with you. the Holy Spirit can do nothing with someone like that... /sarcasm
One of the things, that the Scripture tells us, is that when we are convicted of our sins, by the Spirit of God, we become new creatures, a new creation.
You may not accept what I say, but you cannot deny what the Scripture says. In Genesis, which I earlier paraphrased, the reason Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden, it was not just because of their disobedience, but that they had eaten from the "TREE OF KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL".
Gen 2:15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."
They did not die immediately. Through their disobedience, we all become joint heirs of that death. Through the obedience of Jesus, we become joint heirs to HIS ETERNAL life. But, only after our conviction by the Holy Spirit, and our acceptance that Jesus is the Messiah.
One of the indicators of our walk with Him, is a changed life. Those outward sins, which are readily apparent to others, are usually changed immediately, by us, with God's help. Repentance is a turning away, not just saying I'm sorry.
But, we are told to turn around, and head in the other direction, from what we are before salvation. We come to God's throne, with a covering of the Blood, to defend us from death. We come to Him, with a malleable heart. The homosexual that has no desire to change, has not met God.
Jesus told the harlot "go and sin no more". He told her that she was doing wrong, and to correct her direction. He told those with stones, to take a measure of themselves.
We are all sinners. I agree with the pastor who declined membership in his congregation. He has Paul on his side, too.
Homosexual activity flies in the face of God. Look at those parades you referenced. It is a total perversion of His design for man. Just ask anybody from Sodom! Oh, yeah, you can't. He's already spoken on that one...
Homosexuals know they are doing wrong. The Holy Spirit is here to show them. It doesn't take the written word... nor anything in stone. The Word is alive.
You cannot take open sinners, and say welcome, we will look the other way... if you'll just put some money in the offering plate, and teach a sunday school class. do you want homosexuals teaching your children, when they are UNrepentant and flinging their perversion into your face?
Sin is sin, and God does not use a measuring stick. But, He does have some criteria besides sitting in a pew...
"I condemn a man sticking his penis in another man's "backside," regardless if he's homosexual or heterosexual."
The comment is clear.
You've piqued my curiousity. What were some of the reasons?
I became a much more humble person when I realized anything less than perfect purity is an abomination to God. It is man who considers one sin better than another. God's standard is perfection; anything less requires grace.
SS. Amazing how you dis this site and its members yet continue to come back.
Don't want to be outed on some Gay Oregonian site or are they just not eclectic enough for you?
Actually -it is really a simple concept. Sinning behind closed doors is unknown to but God. A minister can only legitimately act upon objective evidence as even a minister can not read an individuals heart and mind -only God can do this.
The argument that a minister or even laity can not condemn what is objective because there is so much subjective is the argument of moral relative fools that are in reality but devils advocates ignorantly or intentionally promulgating an everything is okay because we are all sinners methodology to truth that flies in the face of Christian teaching...
What are we debating again?
"Hodar wrote: "I submit that if the world were full of sin-less people, there would be no need for a church. Who needs the church more than the sinners?"
Absolutely correct on that one.
I myself am a habitual, repeat offender. But I deplore it. I repent it. And with God's help through His Church, I am struggling towards living a Christian life.
But the church cannot help sinners who do not repent. Accepting a member who says, "I don't regret my sins and I have no intention of turning away from them," would be the same as saying, "We don't care about your soul, all we want is your dues."
And THAT would be religious hypocrisy at its worst."
Excellent point - it is the main point that those who argue for homosexuals and satanists who are open in the church fail to recognize. I had to repeat it, thanks for posting.
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