They're Armed, Dangerous And Next Door

St. Petersburg Times ^ | October 22, 2005 | Daniel Ruth

[Cincinatus' Wife]

Some years ago, long after a co-worker had left the Ministry of Truth, a number of us learned that, during this person's tenure among us, the individual frequently was armed and dangerous in the workplace.

If there is such a thing as a retroactive, post-traumatic, primal scream/crawling into a fetal position/whimpering with delayed fear syndrome -- the idea that many of us once worked alongside not only a complete crazy nut job, but a complete crazy nut job with a GUN certainly qualifies.

Or, put another way, if you ever needed a reason to install the mother of all panic rooms, consider this certifiably insane statistic: At the moment, across our fair beloved state, there are 354,552 Floridians with concealed weapons permits walking among us.

Let's face it, you just know at least a couple thousand of those folks running around with their hidden weapons are probably more unhinged than Edgar Allen Poe meets Rudolf Hess.

A Simple Test

Or perhaps they are directly behind you in traffic. Brrrrrrr.

Which brings us rather neatly to state Rep. Dennis Baxley, R-Tea Cup Poodle, the legislative supernumerary of the National Rifle Association, who is the leading lotion boy on behalf of the gun lobby to deny employers the right to bar workers from keeping their weapons in their car while on company property.

How deranged is this?

Take this simple test.

Look around your workplace. Chances are there are one, or two, or three, or more co-workers you and your colleagues have often joked about as being the leading candidate to bring an AK-47 to the office someday.

Or maybe that Dilbert from Hell is -- you!

And now Dennis Baxley, R-You Talkin' To Me?, wants to make it just that much easier for your resident lunatic in the next cubicle to turn Amalgamated Widgets into a killing field.

We live in an imperfect world -- filled with very, very strange people who hear voices; who have issues; who really don't like you just ... because.

And many of these people are down the hall -- seething, fulminating, over in personnel -- filling out a job application.

Perfect World

Purely, as a general principle, can you make some kind of abstract Second Amendment argument that law-abiding citizens ought to be able to take their bazookas, their Uzis, their 50-caliber armor-piercing rocket launchers with them wherever they go, including onto the grounds of Acme Nose Tweezer International?

Well ... OK, whatever.

To be sure, in a perfect world where there was no workplace violence, where some employees weren't more unhinged than Son of Sam meets Lex Luthor, it would be fine if people drove into the company parking lot with their NRA-approved death ray, or their surface-to-air missile, or their Gatling Gun in the trunk. Who would care?

However, if the private sector can regulate other forms of employee behavior, such as smoking in the workplace, why can't employers also establish rules governing the presence of lethal weapons on private property?

There's no question the Florida Legislature, a subsidiary of the National Rifle Association, will pass Baxley's Fortune 500 meets "Six Feet Under" bill.

One question for Baxley, who does happen to have a conflict of interest in his legislation since he is an Ocala funeral director:

If as a result of the representative's legislative actions an act of workplace violence leads to the murders of workers, would Dennis Baxley also be willing to create a NRA-funded compensation account for the surviving families?

Didn't think so.

[Charlespg]

Looks like a real sissy boy

POOFTER ALERT

[THEUPMAN]

So if I find a young man willing to sell himself, sign the contract and take the money ... I can buy myself a slave?

Then sell him on the open market to the highest bidder?

An inalienable right is the kind of thing that exists beyond any government decision or personal choice.

The constitution simply recognises rights , it does not grant them.

The right to protect your self is given by God, or nature .. or what ever you find as the root of life itself.

If you ask me to leave my right to protect myself at the door , then I can agree not to exercise that right , but the right still goes with me.
If you try to punch me , I may chose to exercise the right to protect myself , even though I previously said I would relinquish that right.

Some rights can not be relinquished , simply not exercised.

Since man first picked up a stick, the act of self protection , has carried with it the utilization of tools.

Your correct that you can insist that on your private property no one can exercise the right to self protection ...
you can also proclaim that on your private property you can buy and sell people who would like to sell themselves in to slavery.

Neither is a legitimate request.
And should be unenforcible as a civil tort.

[staytrue]

So if I find a young man willing to sell himself, sign the contract and take the money ... I can buy myself a slave?

According the founding fathers, in certain states, the answer would be YES, YES, AND YES.

Also according to the founding fathers, I have every right to exclude anyone carrying a gun from my property.

[dpa5923]

All rights exist before the state. A state may, with the consent (and often without the consent) of the governed, infringe on a right. This ability to infringe on a right or inability to infringe on a right is not a condition on an individual.

For example: You have the right to be secured in person, place and things as described in the IV amendment. The state cannot seize property without a warrant and just cause. This is not a restriction on a private citizen however.

If you are my roommate and I believe you are selling drugs, I can take evidence from your room and present it to the police and this evidence is admissible in a court of law, provided I am not acting as an agent of the state during my seizure. Look it up.

Another example: You have the right to free speech as detailed in the first amendment. But if you are my employee and you do a TV commercial for my competition I can fire (and fast). I did not infringe on your right to free speech. You still have it and can exercise it, just not as my employee.

Likewise, the restriction on the state to prevent it from infringing on your right to keep and bear arms does not restrict the individual. I can restrict your right to carry weapons on my private property. You now have a choice. You can either stay off my property and carry your weapon or abide by my rules. Either way, the state is not infringing on your rights, and the ultimate choice to disarm yourself is yours.

Slavery is another issue however. The restrictions imposed by the XIII amendment apply to the entire United States and it jurisdictions. You can choose to be a "slave" to someone else, but this is a voluntary condition that you can leave at anytime, since slavery is illegal in the United States. So can you sell yourself into slavery? No, because it would be an illegal contract. You could act as a slave if you desired, but your slavery would end when ever you wanted it to, or the slave owner is breaking the law. So do you have the right to act as a slave? You sure do. But again, this is your free choice.

This is not a difficult concept. If I own this property, I can restrict access to this property if you are not acting in accordance to my desires. I cannot direct your actions off my property, but on my property I can.

[Shooter 2.5]

What makes you think you can write about Property Rights inside my car?
Your property Rights end at my car door handle.

[THEUPMAN]

Thoughtful answers both, but lets see ...

if a person has the right to deny my self protection on his property, doesn't the collective body enjoy the same right , derived from the group?

In other words if there is a right to deny my ability to protect my self, then since the collective derives only those rights that the individual can posses and give, does that mean that communities , cities, counties, states can deprive me of the right to defend myself?

And if that is the case then we can kiss our guns good bye?

Communities only have rights that individuals have .

Individuals vest those rights in a government.
If individuals have the right to deny gun possession then the community can also, ... is that really the side of the coin you want to be on?

[dpa5923]

If individuals have the right to deny gun possession then the community can also,...

The individual cannot deny you or me gun possesion except on his private property. If you do not wish to give up the temporary possesion of your weapon, stay off his property. The choice is yours.

Still, the collective body would have this right and does in limited circumstances. You can not bring a weapon into a prison for example. However, the constitution is specifically written with the collective body or the state in mind. It is meant to protect the individual against the collective body, not the other way around.

Your right to carry a weapon does not infringe on my right to control my private property. Your rights extend until they infringe on my rights, and vice versa. I cannot infringe on your right beyond my private property.

Again, if you do not want to be disarmed, stay off his property. It is your choice!

[THEUPMAN]

The logical conclusion is a society where guns are allowed only on a small piece of federal land.... soon to be the case I imagine