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University to banish 'discriminatory' Holy Book into wilderness
Times On Line ^ | 10/21/05 | Shirley English

Posted on 10/21/2005 7:33:34 AM PDT by dukeman

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To: Little Ray

welcome to canada, where their cries echoed through parliament and restricted us from helping our OLD TIME neighbor and friend when Iraq came along.


21 posted on 10/21/2005 8:03:19 AM PDT by jackson29
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To: dukeman

It's all about respecting diversity - yeah, right.


22 posted on 10/21/2005 8:05:21 AM PDT by mlc9852
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To: goodnesswins

First, eliminate the Bibles, then - through some screwy logic that would only make sense to a liberal - they will eventually bring in Korans, or set up a mosque, or broadcast the call to prayer over loudspeakers, or establish Muslim holidays as school holidays, or no longer have Friday classes, or do some other politically correct things that will eventually give the school a strong Muslim presence.


23 posted on 10/21/2005 8:06:43 AM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: dukeman
That spinning sound you hear is John Knox rolling over in his grave.

Along with a few million other dead Scotsmen of the last 12 centuries.

25 posted on 10/21/2005 8:10:52 AM PDT by The Iguana
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To: Right Wing Assault; Behind Liberal Lines; ImaGraftedBranch; Extremely Extreme Extremist; ...
In other news, as Christianity has been banned, Indian Buddhism is on the rise. Our special guest has a comment.

: Well, I don't understand why these people see fit to do away with Christianity. I mean, even though I'm the BUDDHA, I still have no problem with other people practicing another religion.

: Nonsense! Doing away with Christianity has done wonders for diversity! (And it's made business good.) Ain't that right Allah?

: Right you are Mr. Satan!

: Good boy. Here's a treat.

: Woof! Thank you! Woof woof!

: Don't I get a say?

: Dude, you've been BANNED! Get back up to your daddy in the clouds!

: Don't forget about the End Times, conceited devil. : .........

Very interesting. More news at the bottom of the hour...

(:-P)

26 posted on 10/21/2005 8:13:46 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007 (We DARE Defend Our Rights [Alabama State Motto])
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To: dukeman
EDINBURGH University is set to ban Bibles from its student halls of residence amid concern that the Holy Book is “discriminatory” and makes students of other faiths feel unwelcome.

The Quran advocates killing students/people of other faiths.

I guess they can't feel unwelcome when they're dead.

27 posted on 10/21/2005 8:14:28 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam Factoid:After forcing young girls to watch his men execute their fathers, Muhammad raped them.)
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To: EBH
I have a problem with 'ban Bibles.' So, does that mean a student bringing their own Bibles is banned from doing so?

No. They want to stop the Gideons from distributing Bibles at the college. However, there is nothing (that I read) that would ban other religions/organizations from distributing, for example, a Koran.

A Gideon Bible is traditionally placed in every new student's room at the start of the academic year and there are currently around 2,000 Bibles in the Pollock Halls campus on the edge of Holyrood Park.

This year Stirling University was forced to abandon plans to remove 6,000 Bibles from its student halls after a storm of protest from offended Christians. As a compromise the university instead invited all religious groups to supply copies of their holy texts.

The Reverend John Munro, a former chaplain at Stirling University, said at the time that withdrawing any book from a place of study smacked of intolerance. "I think there's an agenda here, seemingly politically correct, but there's actually a hostility towards faith by those who have none. This is repeating the worst errors which the Christian faith used to have," he said.

28 posted on 10/21/2005 8:20:33 AM PDT by DumpsterDiver
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To: dukeman

If I were to attend a university in a predominately Muslim country, and I found a Koran in my dorm room, the thought of being "offended" would never cross my mind.


29 posted on 10/21/2005 8:23:11 AM PDT by Skooz ("Political Correctness is the handmaiden of terrorism" - Michelle Malkin)
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To: dukeman
"Why do the heathen rage and shake their fists at the Almighty..."
30 posted on 10/21/2005 8:27:19 AM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past

I thought the exact same thing when i read that line.

The ACLU couldn't have said it better.


31 posted on 10/21/2005 8:34:42 AM PDT by tdewey10 (It's time for the party to return to the principles of President Reagan.)
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To: Skooz

nor would you have a choice in the name of diversity!


32 posted on 10/21/2005 8:43:30 AM PDT by jackson29
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To: dukeman

Reminds me of these lines from "The Stockpile Song"that went something like this:


"They can take the church away

"But they can't stop us when we pray.

"They refuse to understand

"We are a Jesus loving band

"So spread the word across the land

"And stockpile Bibles while you can."


33 posted on 10/21/2005 8:45:25 AM PDT by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
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To: dinoparty
I am a Christian, but if I saw a Koran on the table, I would pick it up and read it out of curiosity. I would never even think about being offended by it!

You nailed it! I think they (the evil-doers) are really afraid people may begin to actually, think, when they read a Bible. Remember the words from 1984, "Ignorance is Strength". This is not about diversity.

34 posted on 10/21/2005 8:48:10 AM PDT by Clock King ("How will it end?" - Emperor; "In Fire." - Kosh)
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To: dinoparty
I am a Christian, but if I saw a Koran on the table, I would pick it up and read it out of curiosity. I would never even think about being offended by it!

Especially in the context of a kinddom where the Queen is also the head of the Church. You might think that understanding the Queen's religion would be a good education for foreign students.

35 posted on 10/21/2005 8:53:55 AM PDT by george wythe
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To: mtbopfuyn

i really do hope they try to ban the koran, and then i really really really really hope a good muslim does as he has to do, use your imagination here. whatever muslims maybe, they at least defend their faith, i gotta give them that.


36 posted on 10/21/2005 9:04:23 AM PDT by son of caesar (son of caesar)
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To: dukeman
“We simply don’t want to be seen promoting one religion over another. This is not about attacking Christianity. It is about respecting diversity.”

Seems I remember a prediction about the rise of the lukewarm 'Laodicean' church during the latter days in that Holy Book they're banning.

37 posted on 10/21/2005 9:10:29 AM PDT by Mogollon
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To: dukeman
It is about respecting diversity.

AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!

38 posted on 10/21/2005 9:11:00 AM PDT by CaptRon (Pedecaris alive or Raisuli dead)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past; Esther Ruth; F15Eagle
So let me see if I get this right, they who pride themselves for embracing multicultural pluralism will unabashedly exclude the Holy Bible because it is not. History has proven that any time a world-view is excluded, it is replaced by another. By expelling a belief, one is not left with a position of neutrality. Removing good never stops with that one step.

Just as a blackmailer is never satiated, a rebellious heart will never feel that it has enough autonomy. Leadership that caters to the rebellious will find in them an insatiable demand for more. This is emminently illustrated in Scripture itself: for once Manasseh implemented his hell-born schemes of infant sacrifice to the god Moloch, he begat a downward slide he could not stop, for autonomy becomes addictive.

It is crystal clear what has been occuring for quite some time now. The fences are being torn down, the delimeters between right and wrong. This is exemplified no clearer than in the reign of Manasseh, the son of Hezekiah. If there's one word that even comes close to summarizing the effects of Manasseh's reign, it would be pitiful. Old Testament writers and commentators are united in describing his as one of the darkets periods in Judah's history, and tragically one of the longest reigns of Judah's history.

The people knew that they were on the path to destruction, and not only that, but complete destruction to boot. Although he belatedly realized the evil that he had wrought and tried desparately to stop the degenerative processes he had started, he found out that it is easier to destroy a a nation than to rebuild it.

The first thing that Manasseh did was to lead a reaction against his father's spiritual reforms. In four patently blunt verses, Scripture tells us of the course that Manasseh charted:

¶ Manasseh was twelve years old when he began to reign, and reigned fifty and five years in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Hephzibah. And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, after the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out before the children of Israel. For he built up again the high places which Hezekiah his father had destroyed; and he reared up altars for Baal, and made a grove, as did Ahab king of Israel; and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them. And he built altars in the house of the LORD, of which the LORD said, In Jerusalem will I put my name. And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD. And he made his son pass through the fire, and observed times, and used enchantments, and dealt with familiar spirits and wizards: he wrought much wickedness in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger. - II Kgs 21:1-6

It has been rightly said, that prior to removing a fence, one should examine why the fence was put up in the first place. The moral law that God gave Moses at the Mount of Sinai was just that. It not only revealed the nature of God and His purpose for His creation, it also served as a boundary line for the people, a line that could not be crossed with impunity. Os Guinnes said it best: "'Just say no' has become America's most urgent slogan when 'Why not' has become America's most publicly unanswerable question." (see: The American Hour (New York: The Free Press, 1993), 29) It does not require a sophisticated moral sense to predict the outcome whenever a society pretends there are no ethical or moral fences; common sense alone should be sufficient in that regard.

Manasseh took a third and final step to qwell the voices crying out for a halt to what he was doing. Manasseh instituted a bitter persecution of the prophets, thinking that by silencing them he was doing the politically expedient thing. He did not even bother to look over the historical landscape and learn that he could never succeed in eradicating true spiritual passion by persecuting it. False and superficial beliefs can be stifled by law or power, but those etched into the concience or soul cannot be obliterated by decree. The very prophet that Manasseh killed, Isaiah, was the one who told us more of Messiah's triumph through suffering and of the everlasting nature of God's kingdom than any other prophetic voice. C.S. Lewis said, one of the most repeated lessons of history, It is possible for one person to lead millions into untold evil. One need only exmine Scripture with respect to Manasseh, or to Stalin and Hitler to see evidence of that.

Stamped upon our coins is the Latin inscription: E Pluribus Unum - out of the many, one; out of diversity, unity. Where else but in America can one find a fast-food outlet where a Korean is selling kosher tacos?

The assumption that all ideas are equally true is false. Philosophically it is very easy to demonstrate that falsity. Any society, however sincere, that believes in the equality of all ideas will pave the way for the loss of good ones. What is true, however, is that most people will be guided in life by merely a handful of ideas, and therefore it is all the more important that there be a way of measuring why one idea is chosen over another. This is the issue at the heart and soul of Western pluralism; on what basis have we surrendered ourselves to the ideas that govern our culture.

Paul Tillich, a noted liberal theologian, sums up my position most eloquently when he spoke of three kinds of cultures as they relate to religious knowledge. The names he assigned these cultures are distracting and the ideas are unwieldy. But the concepts are very accurate.

Heteronomy argues for a "different" law that comes from without; theonomy argues for "God's law" that is intuitively within ("god" being defined differently by pantheism than the Christian would define God); and autonomy argues for "self-law" as the only law. The question then arises: Can an autonomous culture absorb theonomous and heteronomous cultures and still remain autonomous? The answer to that is no, not without the compromise of major assumptions.

To illustrate the absurdity of trying to adhere to inherently contradictory multicultural plurastic philosophies, I present the following analogy:

There was a group of travelers aboard a plane on a turbulent flight. One of the fliers was greatly distressed, and as her dicomfiture continued, the flight attendent tried every concievable way to ease the the mind of this passenger to assure her that the plane could take an extraoridinary amount of pounding and still be safe. Noticing that her agitation was unabated, the attendent asked for the pilot's help.

Taking the hand of the nervous passenger, the cockpit crewmember said, "Madam, as you look outside the right windows, do you see the blinking light?"

"Yes," she said nervously.

"As you look outside the left window, do you see a light blinking?"

"I do," she murmured.

"As long as we stay between those two lights," the crew memmber said, "we are safe."

Like a train that laid its own track, this assurance was an illusory one, for obviously the plane could plummet headlong with its lights still blinking on either side. The path pluralization provides is equally unconfirming for safety, for the lights are not a path at all but are locked into the performance of the aircraft itself. Its safety is dependent upon itself.

G.K. Chesterton sums up multicultural pluralism brilliantly:

The new rebel is a skeptic and will not entirely trust anything. He has no loyalty; therefor he can never be really a revolutionist. And the fact that he doubts everything really gets in his way when he wants to denounce anything. For all denunciation implies a moral doctrine of some kind and th emodern revolutionist doubts not only the institution he denounces, but he doctrine by which he denounces it. Thus, he writes one book complaining that imperial oppression insults the purity of women, and then writes another book, a novel, in which he insults it himself. He curses the Sultan because Christian girls lose their virginity, and then curses Mrs. Grundy because they keep it. As a politician he will cry out that war is a waste of life, and then as a philosopher that life is a waste of time. A Russian pessimist will denounce a policeman for killing a peasant, and then prove by the highest philosophical principles that the peasant ought to have killed himself. A man denounces marriage as a lie and then denounces aristorcratic profligates for treating it as a lie. He calls a flag a bauble and then blames the oppressors of Poland or Ireland because they take away the bauble. The man of this school goes first to a political meeting, where he complains that savages are treated as if they are beasts. Then he takes his hat and umbrella and goes on to a scientific meeting where he prooves that they practically are beasts. In short, the modern revolutionist, being an infinite skeptic, is always engaged in undermining his own mind. In his book on politics he attacks men for trampling morality, and in his book on ethics he attacks morality for trampling on men. Therefore the modern man in revolt has become practically useless for all purposes of revolt. By rebelling against everything he has lost his right to rebel against anything. - Orthodoxy (Garden CIty, N.Y.: Doubleday, 1959), 41

The schizophrenia that this breeds is most glaringly epitomized with two front-page stories that ran at the same time. One described a professional basketball player who tragically had been diagnosed with AIDS; he conceded that he had lived a flagrantly promiscuous lifestyle. He was, nevertheless, hailed as a hero. At the same time another reknown individual was nominated for Supreme Court justice. Allegations surfaced that ten years earlier he had used some rather lewed or sexually motivated language towards a collegue, who was also a friend. This judicial nominee was publicly humiliated for these alleged remarks that by implication deemed him unfit for the office.

Whether or not one should be villified or not is not the point here. The point is that the opposite conditions of exaltation and humiliation did not come from a single standard. Invariably, when debating God's goodness, the challenge is presented by pointing out all the evil, and most especially gratuitious evil (seemingly at a whim), present in the world around us. In response, I ask, "When you arrogate the right to yourself to chose who may live within a womb, and who may die, you call it a moral right. But when God excercises the same right, you call Him evil. Can you explain this seemingly condtradictory position to me?" I'm usually met with nothing more than anger, and verbal denunciation or frustration. It is the torment of the contradictions inherent in multicultural pluralism that most of us are trying desparately trying to escape.

That there is a societal schizophrenia is self evident. On the one hand, a woman's right to kill her fetus is a right enshrined in the Constitution. On the other hand, the murderer of a pregnant woman is charged with double-homicide. There is a profound lesson to be learned from the foregoing, and from studying Manasseh's life. It is the ultimate test of any civilization is what we do with our children. When the soul of a nation is scarred, its children are part of the loss. Every culture today claims, in theory, to place the highest value on its love of its children. Some years ago a Middle Eastern leader was asked when the fighting in that part of the world would stop, she answered, "When they love their children more than they hate us." There is a pround expression of values in that statement. Our own criminals understand this, and draw a line there. Those whose crime was committed against a child are kept in protective isolation to protect them from the anger of other prisoners.

Why the seemingly enormous disconnect here? According to the law of non-contradiction, that which is true can not be false, and that which is false can not be true. Is it all right to torture babies? The increasingly steepening slope civilization is embarked upon, is being slickened with the call for tolerance; a position that itself is inherently intolerant of the message proclaimed by Christianity.

Secularization has led to the loss of shame, pluralization has led to the loss of reason, and privitazation to the loss of meaning. When secularization has bred its loss of shame it will generate evil even against those we love. Pluralization in turn has given birth to the loss of reason,, generating evil toward those whom we choose to hate. Privatization kills meaning and gives rise to evil within ourselves because the alienation within mutilates the soul.

Daniel Yankelovich wrote in Psychology Today Apr 1981, pg. 36, "New Rules in American Life: Searching for Self-fullfillment in a World Turned Upside Down" about an upper-middle-class couple, climbing the ladder to wealth and power. With all their gaining and getting, there was an internal ruptureing and bleeding. His run-on sentance uses "and" as the key word:

If yo feel it is imperative to fill all your needs, and if these needs are contradictory or in conflict with those of others or simply unfillable, then frustration inevitably follows. To Abby and Mark as well, self-fullfillment means having a career and marriage and children and sexual freedom and autonomy and being liberal and having money and choosing non-conformity and insisting upon social justice and enjoying city life and country living and simplicity and graciousness and reading and good friends and on and on.

This part of Yankelovich's essay demonstrates with grim lucridity the folly of adhering to "both/and" when "either/or" is often the only answer to life's decisions. "Either/or" is also known logically as the law of non-contradiction. A can not be non-A (and vice versa). The eradication of that difference may seem to be paying deference to both sides, but in reality it signals the death of all. It appears in our increasingly secular, pluralistic, rthnocentric multicultural privatized civilization that the rule being proselytized in all actuallity is:

Either all encompassing both/and or nothing

And yet, taking that presupposion to its logical conclusion is patently absurd.

The question boils down to whether or not absolute Truth exists, and if not, can that be stated absolutely? If it does exist, where may it be found and would it be beneficial in our lives to heed that Truth? What's most amazing to me is that offense is taken by the mere presence of the Bible in students halls of residence, lest - horror of horrors - somebody actually might read the despicable thing.

39 posted on 10/21/2005 12:42:40 PM PDT by raygun
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To: dukeman

bump for later read


40 posted on 10/21/2005 1:02:09 PM PDT by aimhigh
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