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Mark Steyn: The death of Mother Russia
The Spectator (U.K.) ^ | 10/22/05 | Mark Steyn

Posted on 10/20/2005 6:18:16 AM PDT by Pokey78

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To: Cowboy Bob

Bump fo' later


61 posted on 10/20/2005 9:41:41 AM PDT by Cowboy Bob (Liberalism cannot survive in a free and open society.)
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To: tjg

Abortion in Russia is illegal after 12 weeks. We can't even fully stop partial birth abortions.


62 posted on 10/20/2005 9:42:11 AM PDT by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: Pokey78

Great, great writing from Steyn.


63 posted on 10/20/2005 9:58:28 AM PDT by lawgirl (Sure I believe in intelligent design. The best accident we've come up with is Mary in grilled cheese)
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To: jb6

Most women in this country have abortions within 12 weeks, so such a restriction would not stop most women determined to abort their child.


64 posted on 10/20/2005 10:04:49 AM PDT by LWalk18
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To: GarySpFc

"Secondly, while Russia did have a problem with abortions at one time, abortion has been strictly restriced by law to the first 12 weeks."

Formally, yes. But in the side alley, you could always slip 50 roubles into a doctor's pocket and he/she would be more than happy to scratch it out of you in his/her appartment. BTW, many women preferred it that way, çause then they got sedated. In the MW's, they kind of had to do without sedation.


65 posted on 10/20/2005 10:06:49 AM PDT by Mi-kha-el ((There is no Pravda in Izvestiya and no Izvestiya in Pravda.))
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To: Mi-kha-el

While working in Moscow, I was told that abortion is the first choice for birth control and that the average Russian woman has had MULTIPLE abortions.


66 posted on 10/20/2005 10:33:27 AM PDT by rebel_yell2
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To: LWalk18
True, and there is now a mass push by the Church, the conservatives, nationalists, Orthodox Jews, etc for a total ban. It's that slippery slope thing and they made a huge jump by restricting it to the first 12 weeks. Give it time and there will be a full ban.

And its true, what Gary says. We were walking through parks and there were tons of women with strollers and little kids.

67 posted on 10/20/2005 10:34:51 AM PDT by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: wideawake

I don't understand why Russia doesn't simply outlaw abortions as a matter of national survival. Are their politics as hopelessly feminist-soaked as our own?


68 posted on 10/20/2005 10:36:52 AM PDT by Junior_G
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To: jb6
Abortion in Russia is illegal after 12 weeks.

Now that would be a good start over here.

69 posted on 10/20/2005 10:39:40 AM PDT by Junior_G
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To: jb6
I'm guessing this Kanook doesn't climb out of the snow drift to often.

ROFL!! And no doubt he has been to Russia zero times but knows it all from reading Newsmax.

But hey, we've got planned parenthood in every city and Soros imbedded in our superior country. So we know how to call the shots, even if the Russians do have ten years olds speaking perfect English and a higher literacy rate.

Never mind that we're dehydrating our elderly daily in "nursing homes" and trying to work out hospice programs for our chronically ill children to save them from the horrors of hospitalization. It is Russia that is hellbent on a death wish, and we who are committed to life. Got that, now?

70 posted on 10/20/2005 10:40:00 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: Pokey78

My opinion of Russia is that communism raised generations to depend on an all-powerful government to tell them what to do and provide them sustenance. Folks who resisted were murdered. What is left are mostly the lemmings who lack the initiative to seek a better future for themselves. The "satellite" countries of Eastern Europe also struggle with this but they had the advantage of finding independence through the guys who stood up to Moscow all those years. Poland is an excellent example of this.

I hope Russia gets their act together because they have a great potential for good throughout the world. But they will need to raise a generation of people full of self-determination before they will be able to have the impact I wish for them.


71 posted on 10/20/2005 10:47:00 AM PDT by Tall_Texan (HOUSTON ASTROS - NATIONAL LEAGUE CHAMPIONS 2005)
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To: GarySpFc
Firstly, Russian men do not live to 56, which is an exaggeration on Steyn's part.

Maybe, but do you have any references to refute him?

Secondly, while Russia did have a problem with abortions at one time, abortion has been strictly restriced by law to the first 12 weeks.

What does that have to do with a 70% abortion rate? I don't think Steyn offered any statistics on when the abortions were performed, just how many were performed.

What you say might be correct, but without references you won't get far in your argument.

72 posted on 10/20/2005 10:53:51 AM PDT by NCSteve
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To: Shalom Israel
However, exaggeration doesn't render his observations meaningless: the birth rate is still below replacement level; the muslim problem is still raging; both know-how and capital are still flowing west; etc. Those problems may all be resolved tomorrow, even--but they do exist today.

Russia has almost paid off its foreign debt, and still has $185 billion in reserves. Jobs are being created for the educated Russians. You might want to catch up on what is going on there. The building boom is amazing. My Russian mutual fund is up 48% this year.
73 posted on 10/20/2005 10:54:55 AM PDT by GarySpFc (Sneakypete, De Oppresso Liber)
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To: Tall_Texan; GarySpFc; Agrarian; Kolokotronis; katnip; kosta50
But they will need to raise a generation of people full of self-determination before they will be able to have the impact I wish for them.

Obviously you have not spent enough time in the company of a Babushka who thinks your children have not eaten enough yet.

74 posted on 10/20/2005 10:58:00 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: Junior_G

Are their politics as hopelessly feminist-soaked as our own?
--
Hardly, Russia is still a man's world, and the women dress for them. Russian women put any other women in the world to shame with their stylish clothing. The first time I had a difficult time keeping my head on with all the beautiful women walking around.


75 posted on 10/20/2005 10:58:28 AM PDT by GarySpFc (Sneakypete, De Oppresso Liber)
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To: NCSteve
Maybe, but do you have any references to refute him?

Yeah, CIA World Fact book, look up Russia. It would have helped Styne to have looked up some pertenant info too before doing his hit piece.

76 posted on 10/20/2005 10:58:46 AM PDT by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: NCSteve
Russia
77 posted on 10/20/2005 10:59:58 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: GarySpFc

Well, the Ukrainians and Belaruss are kneck to kneck with the Russians. Hell, most of the women of eastern Europe are also....nothing like being defeminazied.


78 posted on 10/20/2005 11:00:26 AM PDT by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: Tall_Texan
I hope Russia gets their act together because they have a great potential for good throughout the world. But they will need to raise a generation of people full of self-determination before they will be able to have the impact I wish for them.
-----
The people over 50 are as you describe, but those 40 and below have strongly embraced capitalism. Every day a few communists march with their red flags and musical instruments in Red Square. I pointed out to my wife everyone of them were over 55.
79 posted on 10/20/2005 11:02:19 AM PDT by GarySpFc (Sneakypete, De Oppresso Liber)
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To: MarMema; NCSteve

The thing is, mortality rates are a lie. Why? Because they are based on the average of the whole population. What this means is, if you have a high child birth morality rate but your adults live to 100, you'll still have a low mortality rate. Russia has a 16.5 Infant mortality rate and it is a shameful fact for the country. But medication is improving and so is education (something that was lacking under the Soviets IRT birthing, etc) so the mortality rate will do a sharp increase over the next 5 years.


80 posted on 10/20/2005 11:03:40 AM PDT by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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