Just as abominable as Russians celebrating Soviet Communism.
Posted on 10/15/2005 1:36:23 PM PDT by lizol
Russia upset about Estonian monument
Big News Network.com Friday 14th October, 2005 (UPI)
The Russian government released a statement Friday saying Estonia has mocked the memory of victims of fascism by restoring a monument to an SS legion.
The monument to Estonians who fought on the side of Germany during World War II was put up last year, but taken down after an international outcry, the Novosti news agency reported. The monument is now set to be dedicated Saturday with government officials present.
It is especially outrageous that this is happening in the year that marks 60 years since the end of World War II, the Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement. A new attempt to glorify the Estonian SS legion shows that official Tallinn (the Estonian capital) continues to have a supportive attitude toward them. We believe that such an approach has no justification.
One thing is to deal with current concerns, which indeed must be separated from history. And a monument is another: it deals ONLY with history.
You do not find it abominable to erect a monument honoring SS? You find any considerations that excuse that action?
There are plenty of Estonians that can be saluted to. That they chose Nazi Estonians is their choice, which has nothing to do with the Russians.
Well, if as was said earlier the Russians are seeing them as juicy bits ready to fall back into their empire, this particular remembrance is an "IN YOUR FACE COMMIES" move.
There is no mockery: there is irony. Irony is in that Russian communism, while standing on the side of fascism's created great many victims of its own. That fact does not negate that fascism should not be celebrated.
The fact that someone erects a monument in honor of fascism is rightfully considered in isolation: this act has nothing to do with any other part of Estonian (or Russian) history.
Finally, even if the Russian position were inconsistent, what does that have to do with Estonia? It is an independent country, it makes its own choices. It chose to celebrate fascism. And that is an abomination.
No, they did not hate Nazis at all.
Moreover, we are not talking about volunteering for the German army: that could indeed be explained by the desire to liberate themselves from the Russians. These people volunteered for the SS.
Let the Russians whine.....its good for them.
Ah, I see: to make Russians whine, you'd support a memorial to Hitler in Washington also? Do you have any principles, or only hatred for the Russians?
I see. So, if you have a man you dislike or even hate, it's OK to rape that man's wife?
What I am talking about is means vs. ends: it is the main distinction in the values of Western civilization that the former do NOT justify the latter. Moreover and simpler: no people has ever erected a monument to the "third" party merely to spite a foreign power. To do so would be idiotic. It's like covering your town square in sh-t: foreigners may be dismayed reading about that in the newspapers, but it is you who'll smell it every day. People erect monuments to what THEY themselves honor and celebrates (and if that spites their enemies they get extra satisfaction -- but that is never the main motive).
They're raping nobody. The German Nazis are long gone. But there seems to be a notable lack of interest in actual Nazi politics in Estonia, leaving no other conclusion about why they'd do this than yes, it's to get in Russia's face.
As I said, because he was more powerful. If Stalin had his power, then he would have been a murderous threat to the existence of civilization. Once someone like Stalin decides to starve 7 million people to death because they weren't going along with his program, it makes little sense at that point to worry about the finer points of whether or not he was "better" than this or that other mass murderer. At that point, the only real difference between him and any of the others is logistical feasibilities.
Just as abominable as Russians celebrating Soviet Communism.
You obviously missed the point. You would not rape your enemy's wife because that is an immoral act in itself, regardless of whose wife that woman is. The same is here: you approve of Estonians' salute to one of the two main horrors of the XX century. In that you too are raping the memory of the victims of fascism.
You should be ashamed of yourself. In fact, I do not even understand what you are doing on FreeRepublic: your values are completely incompatible with conservative ones.
Yes. But what does that have to do with the issue at hand?
I think that they consider this monument to be built in honor of Estonian soldiers (freedom fighters) and not to celebrate fascism itself. Of course it is controversial but I don’t know wherever such historic revisionists like current Russian politicians has the right to protest…
Actually, no, it chose to celebrate soldiers. Fascist doctrine or policies had nothing to do with the celebration, any more than Communist doctrine or policies had to do with Russia's recent celebrations of the U.S.S.R.'s victory over the Nazis.
Actually, I think I may have to take back that comment after seeing the pic at #29. I'll bet the Estonian monument didn't have any swastikas on it.
You must be kidding: the threat of annihilation by nuclear weapons was not sufficient for you? They collapsed before they could implement their evil designs fully. But they did have those designs, just as Hitler.
More importantly, why is of any relevance to compare to evil regimes when the question is whether any of them may be celebrated?
Gotcha! I never said I approved. I said this was why they did it, and I see why they did it. Also it doesn't seem to be offending people within Estonia itself. (Possibly because the Jews got nudged out of there early in the 1900s well before Nazism could wreak its hell upon them there. That's how my grandfather got to America, by the way.)
That it is shortsighted and wrong in other ways, is undeniable.
Are you joking?
The monument celebrates those that volunteered to serve in what amounts to death squads. They did not volunteer to liberate their lands.
Fascist doctrine or policies had nothing to do with the celebration,
So what soldiers fight for does not matter? How long did it take you to come up with that "pearl?"
any more than Communist doctrine or policies had to do with Russia's recent celebrations of the U.S.S.R.'s victory over the Nazis.
These celebrations take place at the present time. Asked at the present time whether Nazism should have been defeated you'll probably (although judging from your posts I am not sure) answer in the affirmative. That is why Russians' celebration is not immoral. It is other past actions of the Russian communism that were immoral, and their existence has nothing to do with the celebration.
The monument answer the question differently: the SS death squads -- including numerous Estonians in death camps --- is an abomination. But apparently not to you.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.