Stillwater ministers discuss homosexuality

O'Colly ^ | today | Lauren Merryman

[Mr. Blonde]

Three Stillwater ministers discussed homosexuality from a positive, biblical standpoint Thursday.

“It is important for gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgendered persons to know that God is love,” said Lucy Wilke, president of Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays.

The Sexual Orientation Diversity Association and the Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays organized the spirituality and sexuality panel. The Rev. Gordon Edwards of the First Presbyterian Church, the Rev. Stan Warfield of the First United Methodist Church and Anne Collins of the Quakers spoke on the panel Thursday and in the panel in 2003.

About 60 percent of the First Presbyterian Church congregation in Stillwater is open to the church changing its views on homosexuality. The First Presbyterian Church and the First United Methodist Church don’t recognize same sex marriages.

The ministers unanimously agreed that the Bible should not be taken literally and they want their presence in the church to change people’s viewpoints on homosexuality.

A proposal is in debate for the First Presbyterian Church. If the proposal passes, then each congregation can decide individually who can be a member.

Edwards said he wants to use his voice to encourage change in the church.

“All people are part of God’s creations and we welcome all members,” Edwards said.

Although the First Presbyterian Church in Stillwater does not recognize homosexual marriage, Edwards said he could marry a gay couple somewhere besides the church.

“If there is ever going to be a change, I’ve got to be within the system,” Warfield said. “I cannot make any changes outside the system.”

Warfield said his church prides itself on being open-minded by not telling the congregation what to believe.

Warfield looks at four different aspects when approached with a situation. He says to look into what the scripture says, look at the tradition of the church, look at the Christian experience and look at whatever reason tells you.

Collins said the Quaker religion has a much more liberal standpoint on homosexuals then many other religions.

“The way we worship, everyone is considered a minister,” Collins said.

She said when homosexuals started coming to the church in the ‘80s, they had been persecuted from other religions and were suffering.

“When you worship with people who experience great suffering, you experience great power of God,” Collins said.

Collins said the Quaker religion doesn’t take the Bible literally.

“There’s too much stuff in there that’s backward, forward and contradicting,” Collins said.

All the ministers agreed that most congregations have a long way to go before homosexuality is represented in churches.

“Prejudice is taught,” Collins said.

[Mr. Blonde]

I have heard on good authority there is a lesbian Methodist minister in Oklahoma. She even lives with her partner is my understanding. Doesn't bode well for the church.

[x5452]

Leviticus, Chapter 18:22
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination.

[ClearCase_guy]

The ministers unanimously agreed that the Bible should not be taken literally and they want their presence in the church to change people’s viewpoints on homosexuality.

"Look," they said, "The Bible is just made up stuff. We don't believe a word of it. Now, the petititon to promote homosexuality is on this table. The petititon to impeach President Bush is on that table."

[ThisLittleLightofMine]

The ministers unanimously agreed that the Bible should not be taken literally and they want their presence in the church to change people’s viewpoints on homosexuality.

YIKES!!! So why take Jesus at His Word? These heretics are misleading ALOT of people. Shame on them.

[DBeers]

Three Stillwater ministers heretics discussed homosexuality from a positive, biblical anti-biblical standpoint Thursday.

God heard them and scheduled accordingly...

[Semper Paratus]

The Bible is just made up stuff. We don't believe a word of it.

Including "Thall shalt not Kill"?

[Mr. Blonde]

I think there are a lot of people who would say not every word is to be taken literally. And of course some parts do seem to conflict with each other. With that said, I find it hard to believe that any minister could actually believe the entire thing is used for illustration and not as being for the most part literal truth.

[VRWCTexan]

QUOTE: "The ministers unanimously agreed that the Bible should not be taken literally and they want their presence in the church to change people’s viewpoints on homosexuality."

Mal 3:6:

"For I am the LORD, I do not change;

[scripter]

Bump and ping.

[DBeers]

poing!

The Natural Laws Can Not Be Denied
- Resistance Is Futile!

This should be more than adequate to show the clerics espousing homosexual 'love' to be heretical fools that seek ignorance and or deceit by omission and promulgate false authenticity in truth perverted.

New Testament: Sacred Scripture on subject of homosexuality:

1. Matthew 5:1-48

   17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.

   18 Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.

   19 Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever obeys and teaches these commandments will be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

2. Matthew 15:1-39

   19 For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, unchastity, theft, false witness, blasphemy.

3. 1 Timothy 1:1-20

   8 We know that the law is good, provided that one uses it as law,

   9 with the understanding that law is meant not for a righteous person but for the lawless and unruly, the godless and sinful, the unholy and profane, those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers,

   10 the unchaste, practicing homosexuals, kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is opposed to sound teaching,

   11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.

4. 1 Corinthians 6:1-20

   9 Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor practicing homosexuals

   10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

5. Romans 1:1-32

   22 While claiming to be wise, they became fools

   23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes.

   24 Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts for the mutual degradation of their bodies.

   25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

   25 Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural,

   26 and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.

[VRWCTexan]

2nd Timothy Chap 3: Perilous Times and Perilous Men

But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come:

2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!

[Rodney King]

discussed homosexuality from a positive, biblical standpoint

Need I read any more?

[little jeremiah]

Homosexual Agenda Ping.

Religion minus the actual basic rules God gives us = Irreligion. A false show, a fakery. And quickly turning into a freak show. Religion isn't churches, cathedrals, synagogues, or temples. It's not religious vestments, holy garb, robes, or tonsures. It's not holy or sacred symbols. It is God and His divine instructions and words, accepted by the surrendered soul, who then tries his/her best to live those instructions and words as the center of his/her life.

That's religion. Nothing else. Because all the above - while maybe helpful, and if imbued with real religion, a wonderful spiritual force for good - are empty without the heart of religion.

Anyone can go into a house of worship, dress up in the appropriate garb, grab the holy book, wear the proper and traditional insignia, and then speak and live lies that have nothing whatsoever to do with God. And the people who listen to those lies are not only not brought closer to God, they are accepting the counterfeit as real, and only cheat themselves.

Freepmail me and DirtyHarryY2K if you want on/off this pinglist.

[Rodney King]

Warfield looks at four different aspects when approached with a situation.

OK

He says to look into what the scripture says,

Homosexual behavior is sinful.

look at the tradition of the church,

Homosexual behavior is sinful.

look at the Christian experience

Homosexuals hate us.

and look at whatever reason tells you.

The out door should not be used as an in door.

[Southside_Chicago_Republican]

Warfield said his church prides itself on being open-minded by not telling the congregation what to believe.

Well, if this is true, then it must make for a pretty short workweek for Warfield. Of course, it isn't true, since he is telling the congregation what to believe regarding GLBT issues.

Warfield looks at four different aspects when approached with a situation. He says to look into what the scripture says, look at the tradition of the church, look at the Christian experience and look at whatever reason tells you.

A not-so-clever invocation of the "Wesleyan Quadrilateral," which a lot of modern Methodists now use to dispense with the common doctrines of the Christian faith. He ignores what Scripture teaches. I know for sure that he has no understanding of Church tradition, if he has studied it at all. Christian experience is an important element but, unguided and unenlightened, leads to error and deception. That goes double for reason.

Strike four! He's out!

The good pastors are really saying that Scripture and Church Tradition are unreliable, and that if we really want to know the truth, we listen to them. It kind of reminds me of the old line from Groucho Marx -- "Who are you going to believe -- me, or your own lying eyes?"

[newsgatherer]

The ministers unanimously agreed that the Bible should not be taken literally ....

So, we don't have to be Born Again to get into heaven? Wow, imagine that, Jesus went up on the cross for nothing. All The Lord God Creator of the Universe had to do was wait till the right leftist preachers came along and reinterpreted the Word of God so that He could have just gone to McDonalds for coffee or something.

I'm impressed, but then again I'm impressed by a ball point pen and a thermos bottle, never could figure ut how it knows whether to keep things warm or cold. /sarcasm>

[newsgatherer]

You got Matthew five right, so why did you ignore Leviticus 20:13? The single most damning and clear statement in the entire Bible on homsexuality.

By the way, the picture of that woman, what in the world is that thing over her left eye?

[TenaciousZ]

homosexuality from a positive, biblical standpoint
Need I read any more?

Nah. We've got a breakdown in logic here:

The ministers unanimously agreed that the Bible should not be taken literally

[DBeers]

You got Matthew five right, so why did you ignore Leviticus 20:13? The single most damning and clear statement in the entire Bible on homsexuality.

I just did not include Old Testament as I did not wish to entertain debate over Old Testament law being still quite valid as Christ did not do away with the law (see New Testament Matthew 5:17-19). Old Testament penalties of man may have been done away with; however, the 'old law' is still in effect, mortal sin is still mortal sin and still damages the soul and can condemn one to damnation.

So yes -you are correct... -Here is more for your perusal:

Sacred Scripture on subject of homosexuality:

New Testament (NAB): Sacred Scripture on subject of homosexuality:

1. Matthew 5:17-19

   17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.

   18 Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.

   19 Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever obeys and teaches these commandments will be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

2. Matthew 10:14-15

   14 Whoever will not receive you or listen to your words - go outside that house or town and shake the dust from your feet.

   15 Amen, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

3. Matthew 11:19-24

   19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking and they said, 'Look, he is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' But wisdom is vindicated by her works."

   20 Then he began to reproach the towns where most of his mighty deeds had been done, since they had not repented.

   21 "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty deeds done in your midst had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would long ago have repented in sackcloth and ashes.

   22 But I tell you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you.

   23 And as for you, Capernaum: 'Will you be exalted to heaven? You will go down to the netherworld.' For if the mighty deeds done in your midst had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

   24 But I tell you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom on the day of judgment than for you."

4. Matthew 15:19

   19 For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, unchastity, theft, false witness, blasphemy.

5. 1 Timothy 1:8-11

   8 We know that the law is good, provided that one uses it as law,

   9 with the understanding that law is meant not for a righteous person but for the lawless and unruly, the godless and sinful, the unholy and profane, those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers,

   10 the unchaste, practicing homosexuals, kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is opposed to sound teaching,

   11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.

6. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

   9 Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor practicing homosexuals

   10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

7. Romans 1:22-27

   22 While claiming to be wise, they became fools

   23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes.

   24 Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts for the mutual degradation of their bodies.

   25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

   26 Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural,

   27 and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.

8. Jude 1:7

   7 Likewise, Sodom, Gomorrah, and the surrounding towns, which, in the same manner as they, indulged in sexual promiscuity and practiced unnatural vice, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Old Testament (NAB): Sacred Scripture on subject of homosexuality:

1. Genesis 18:20-22

   20 Then the LORD said: "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great, and their sin so grave,

   21 that I must go down and see whether or not their actions fully correspond to the cry against them that comes to me. I mean to find out."

   22 While the two men walked on farther toward Sodom, the LORD remained standing before Abraham.

2. Genesis 19:4-25

   4 Before they went to bed, all the townsmen of Sodom, both young and old - all the people to the last man - closed in on the house.

   5 They called to Lot and said to him, "Where are the men who came to your house tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have intimacies with them."

   6 Lot went out to meet them at the entrance. When he had shut the door behind him,

   7 he said, "I beg you, my brothers, not to do this wicked thing.

   8 I have two daughters who have never had intercourse with men. Let me bring them out to you, and you may do to them as you please. But don't do anything to these men, for you know they have come under the shelter of my roof."

   9 They replied, "Stand back! This fellow," they sneered, "came here as an immigrant, and now he dares to give orders! We'll treat you worse than them!" With that, they pressed hard against Lot, moving in closer to break down the door.

   10 But his guests put out their hands, pulled Lot inside with them, and closed the door;

   11 at the same time they struck the men at the entrance of the house, one and all, with such a blinding light that they were utterly unable to reach the doorway.

   12 Then the angels said to Lot: "Who else belongs to you here? Your sons (sons-in-law) and your daughters and all who belong to you in the city - take them away from it!

   13 We are about to destroy this place, for the outcry reaching the LORD against those in the city is so great that he has sent us to destroy it."

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   23 The sun was just rising over the earth as Lot arrived in Zoar;

   24 at the same time the LORD rained down sulphurous fire upon Sodom and Gomorrah (from the LORD out of heaven).

   25 He overthrew those cities and the whole Plain, together with the inhabitants of the cities and the produce of the soil.

3. Leviticus 18:22

   22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination.

4. Leviticus 20:13

   13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.

By the way, the picture of that woman, what in the world is that thing over her left eye?

You would have to be familiar with Star Trek Voyager to know that the device is a Borg implant -LOL...

[tuesday afternoon]

Of course, it isn't true, since he is telling the congregation what to believe regarding GLBT issues.

Good point!