Gay men can be Catholic priests if celibate-paper

Reuters ^ | October 7, 2005 | Philip Pullella

[West Coast Conservative]

The Vatican will allow gay men into the priesthood if they can show they have been celibate for at least three years, leading Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera reported on Friday.

But it said the Vatican will ban men who "publicly manifest their homosexuality" or show an "overwhelming attraction" to homosexual culture "even if it is only intellectually."

The Vatican views on gay priests are contained in a secret 16-page document which is expected to be released next month.

The document, an "instruction" by the Vatican's Congregation for Catholic Education, covers one of the most sensitive issues in the Roman Catholic Church.

Officials at the Congregation for Catholic Education and the Vatican press office could not be reached for immediate comment.

The Corriere report said: "Candidates who show a homosexual tendency will not be allowed into the priesthood unless they can demonstrate that they have been able to remain chaste for at least three years."

Media reports last month, primarily in the United States, said the document would bar all gay men from being ordained priests, even those who are celibate.

Those reports caused concerns in many quarters in the Church that many good men would be excluded by a total ban.

The Church teaches that homosexuality is not a sin but that homosexual acts are, and it expects all priests, whether homosexual or heterosexual, to remain celibate.

Corriere and the weekly Panorama magazine both reported on Friday that Pope Benedict had approved the document this summer.

Panorama said its release would be accompanied by a written explanation by "an internationally known psychologist."

[trisham]

This whole discussion is ridiculous. The word "celibate" does not mean "not having sex", it means "not being married."

Check any dictionary, Reuters.

All this talk of "celibate homosexuals" makes no verbal or logical sense.

*******************

One entry found for celibacy.

Main Entry: cel·i·ba·cy

Pronunciation: 'se-l&-b&-sE

Function: noun

1 : the state of not being married

2 a : abstention from sexual intercourse b : abstention by vow from marriage

[Radioactive]

I guess they have not learned.

I'm positive GOD would not aprove and they will pay the price for sodomy.

The Catholic church leaders probably were blackmailed into accepting sodomites as priests......somebody high up in the church violated one of the golden rules.....thow shalt not put thy rod in thy staff....and now they have to allow sodomites to rule their roost.

[sinkspur]

I just think that the man who's calling is powerful to overcome the normal human need for physical companionship is very rare.

That's right. That's why Jesus said "Let him accept it (being unmarried) who can accept it."

Celibacy is not integral to the Latin Rite priesthood, but it is a tradition. There are many men who have lived it happily, but there are likely many more who shoehorned themselves into the lifestyle and struggled with it until the day they died.

Most priests who end up leaving the priesthood do not do it because they can't have sex. They do it because they can no longer take a lifetime of personal loneliness.

[Antoninus]

Fine. Just don't be surprised when this article, and Allen's, turn out to be true.

I will be surprised because so much of this article is flat-out at-odds with traditional Church practice. Men with psychological problems, like same sex attraction, should not be priests.

[SoothingDave]

The subject is the use of the word "celibacy" in the context of a Catholic theological pronouncement - a pronouncement that will be written in Latin. In theological discussion, the word "celibacy" has a very specific meaning.

For some reason a lot of people have a lot of difficulty accepting the idea that Catholics know what Catholic words mean when Catholics use them.

SD

[Zionist Conspirator]

I'm very sorry to confront you like this, but if you took the sort of angry, aggressive tone with the Fathers and the Bishops that you are taking here, I'm not surprised they told you to get out.

I did not. At one point I actually confessed my literal interpretation of the Bible to a priest as a sin I had been made to feel so guilty about it. He spent some fifteen minutes (with a line outside) trying to show me all the "errors" in the Bible. And this was an older guy, not a hippie at all.

My current anger comes in part from the fact that I so humbled myself before and practically begged to be accepted but was kicked away. I tried so hard to be faithful. But the Catholic Church doesn't want rednecks.

Too bad those bishops who show such balls to a poor confused redneck teetering on the abyss can't find them when it comes to Irish-, Italian-, and Hispanic-American abortion advocates. But I guess those people are just better than rednecks.

[Antoninus]

Fine. Just don't be surprised when this article, and Allen's, turn out to be true.

Thankfully, despite the best efforts of Allen's informants (who are acting in direct violation of the Vatican secrecy order, btw), they are not always right. If they were, Ratzinger would still be a Cardinal and Kasper would be Pope Bruce I.

Wishful-thinking journalism should not be taken seriously.

[wiley]

In the Catholic Church, only married persons are allowed to have sex. Therefore, celibacy means no sex.

[Radioactive]

Beyond that, there is ample evidence that celibate homosexuals have served the Church honorably throughout history and today.

Are you NUTS?

There is no evidence that homosexuals have been any good to any society or group throughout history.

There is a reason for SODOM AND GOMORAH......Sodomy is an abomination before GOD. HE says so in the Bible....and anyone today who says this is wrong is crazy and will pay for this lie in the end.

Every society and or group throughout history who have allowed homosexuality to be accepted has failed the test of time.....they have all been destroyed....if a man or woman accept homosexuality they have been left to their own desires and will destroy themselves...the catholic church is a good example....and will be paying for this decision with a loss of members.

Sodomy......It is a deathstyle...not a lifestyle.

[sinkspur]

I will be surprised because so much of this article is flat-out at-odds with traditional Church practice.

Uh, no it's not. There have been celibate homosexuals in the priesthood throughout the history of the Church.

[adiaireton8]

Yes. The priesthood is made up of men, so it is, by definition, made up of sinners.

But not all disorders are equal. So the fact that the priesthood is made up of sinners is beside the point. The 1961 document makes this plain: "Those affected by the perverse inclination to homosexuality or pederasty should be excluded from religious vows and ordination." So the right question is not whether priests are sinners, but whether homosexual inclination is a disorder severe enough to warrant exclusion from ordination.

-A8

[SoothingDave]

The word has two meanings: it can mean unmarried, and it can also mean abstaining from sexual intercourse. The latter meaning is the one in play here.

Sorry, that still doesn't make any sense in this context. Homosexuals do not engage in "sexual intercourse." Even the most "active" homosexual is "celibate" by this definition.

The meaning of celibacy is "vowing not to marry." In a Catholic context.

In general use, the word "celibate" has spread out in meaning to encompass what is more properly termed "chastity." This is what homosexuals, nay, all people are called to practice.

SD

[wideminded]

The word "celibate" does not mean "not having sex", it means "not being married."

Check any dictionary, Reuters.

From dictionary.com:

cel·i·bate P Pronunciation Key (sl-bt) n.
1. One who abstains from sexual intercourse, especially by reason of religious vows.
2. One who is unmarried.

adj. 1. Abstaining from sexual intercourse, especially by reason of religious vows.
2. Unmarried; unwed.

[Latin caelibtus, from caelebs, caelib-, unmarried.]
Usage Note: Historically, celibate means only “unmarried” its use to mean “abstaining from sexual intercourse” is a 20th-century development. But the new sense of the word seems to have displaced the old, and the use of celibate to mean “unmarried” is now almost sure to invite misinterpretation in other than narrowly ecclesiastical contexts. Sixty-eight percent of the Usage Panel rejected the older use in the sentence "He remained celibate [unmarried], although he engaged in sexual intercourse".

[Zionist Conspirator]

Somebody actually told you that you weren't a Catholic because you believed in a literal interpretation of Scripture?

I find that very hard to believe, but, if it did happen, it shouldn't have. You are free to believe in a literal interpretation of Scripture if you wish. It is not an article of Faith, one way or the other.

Then why is it that (with the exceptions of wideawake, Black Elk, and a few others) every time this comes up the Catholic FReepers come down on literalism like it's the only thing that'll send a person to an otherwise unoccupied Hell? Face it sinkspur, the Catholic Church is opposed to a literal interpretation of the "old testament" for the same reason it's opposed to the observation of Jewish holidays or laying tefillin--it regards it as "heretical Judaizing."

You should get some help. You are cheesed off for no good reason, and it has caused you to speak and think irrationally.

In other words, I have no reason to be jealous of the different way the poor and simple of other ethnicities are accepted by the Catholic Church. Why, because everyone is supposed to know that rednecks are undesirables?

Wait a minute! Is this Al Sharpton???

You were never required, as a matter of faith, to give up your belief in a literal interpretation of Scripture.

Then why are you so against it? Why do you treat it like an inherently anti-Catholic poison?

Where Israel fits into this whole deal is beyond my understanding.

Oh, excuse me, Mr. Sinkspur, I thought you were the big bad "pro-Jewish" liberal. Turns out you're no different from a sedevacantist or a Feeneyite.

Be glad you don't read Hebrew. The Biblical quote in my tagline would offend you.

[sinkspur]

So the right question is not whether priests are sinners, but whether homosexual inclination is a disorder severe enough to warrant exclusion from ordination.

If what is being reported from two different sources today is true, it apparently is not.

[wideminded]

Let's say he's never had a drink before in his life - he just somehow knows he's an alcoholic.

If a non-drinker got an erection every time he spotted an alcoholic drink, he would know that he had a problem.

[SoothingDave]

So the right question is not whether priests are sinners, but whether homosexual inclination is a disorder severe enough to warrant exclusion from ordination.

Exactly. Men with severe psychological disorders are not allowed to be ordained. One would not expect a kleptomaniac or pyromaniac or heroin user to be ordained.

The question then is "Is same-sex attraction an impairing psychological disorder?"

[adiaireton8]

Being non-religious does not make you immoral any more than being religious makes you moral.

One of the requirements of morality has to do with loving God. In fact, that's the most important one. It is kind of hard to love God if you don't believe in God.

-A8

[little jeremiah]

Homosexual Agenda Ping.

Another article with discussion following, about this. It is extremely disturbing. What's also disturbing is the apologists for allowing homosexuals in the priesthood on FR. A homosexual is psychologically disturbed, and by that definition along - whether 'practicing' or not - should be excluded from priesthood. And statements I've read by the Pope stated just that.

Freepmail me if you want on/off this pinglist.

Note: Percentage wise, homosexuals are much more focused on sexual gratification than normal people and their rate of promiscuity is wildly higher.

[SoothingDave]

I'm sorry you ran into some liberal priests who tried to "enlighten" you on your "error" in taking the Bible literally. But that's no reason to inveigh against an entire religion and to develop wild conspiracy theories. (And invisioning your own plight as that of the generic American "redneck" is just a tad on the megalomaniacal side.)

SD