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‘Why?’ versus ‘How?’ [evolution trial in Dover, PA, end of week one]
York Daily Record ^ | 01 October 2005 | LAURI LEBO

Posted on 10/01/2005 5:09:16 AM PDT by PatrickHenry

Professor focused on intelligent design as theology, not science, at Dover trial Friday.

HARRISBURG — If there is a God, then he could have made the monkey and the human with similar genetic material.

In the fifth day of Dover Area School District’s trial over intelligent design, John Haught, a Georgetown University theology professor, agreed that was true.

So, the idea that “we came from some monkey or ape is conjecture at this point?” Dover’s lead attorney Richard Thompson asked Haught under cross-examination.

Haught disagreed.

In a First Amendment battle in U.S. Middle District Court in Harrisburg, the Dover district is defending its decision last year to include intelligent design in its biology curriculum. Eleven parents filed suit against the district arguing the concept is a veiled attempt to force religion into science class.

On Friday, Thompson, in trying to cast doubt over the theory of evolution — referred to as the unifying concept of modern biology — raised the issue of common descent.

But Haught said that in the world of science, there is little debate that humans share a common ancestor.

The professor, who spoke deliberately and extensively on the philosophical differences between religion and science, was the day’s sole witness.

Questioned by plaintiffs’ attorney Alfred Wilcox, he said intelligent design’s basic premise — that the complexity of life defies all explanation but the existence of a designer — is essentially an old religious argument based on the 13th-century writings of St. Thomas Aquinas and the “watchmaker” analogy put forth in 1802 by British philosopher William Paley.

A person walking through a field stumbles upon a watch. It is carefully assembled and wouldn’t function without all its parts working together. The person’s inevitable conclusion? The watch must have a maker.

Under cross-examination, Thompson asked if there was a controversy in the scientific community over the idea of irreducible complexity — essentially, the watchmaker’s observation that if a single working part of an organism were to be removed, the entire system would cease to function.

Haught told him that there exists a controversy between Lehigh University biochemistry professor Michael Behe, who coined the term, and most of the scientific community.

“So, you agree there is a controversy?” Thompson asked.

While most of plaintiffs’ expert testimony this week focused on establishing that intelligent design is not science, Haught’s focused on why it’s theology.

Science asks, “How?” he said. Religion asks, “Why?”

As an example, Haught compared the differences to water boiling on the stove.

What causes it to boil?

Well, one could answer it’s because of rapidly vibrating water molecules.

Another answer could be because “I want a cup of tea,” Haught suggested.

Both are correct answers, but one doesn’t discount the other.

One doesn’t bring the subject of desiring tea into the study of molecular movement.

It’s also a mistake to say, Haught said, “It’s the molecular movement rather than I want tea.”


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; Philosophy; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: anothercrevothread; beatingadeadhorse; crevolist; crevorepublic; dover; enoughalready; evolution; onetrickpony; played; scienceeducation
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To: Ready2go
Ok guys I'm just curious here...can anyone give me a example of how believing in the theory of evolution has resulted in any great inventions or cures? What are they?

I'll bite. I'll try and come up with a few quick ones. Others can join in later.

Antibiotics, vaccines (polio, whooping cough, hepatitis B etc.), treatments (for cancer, diabetes, arthritis, heart disease, etc.), all diagnostic testing (HIV, hepatitis, cancer, pregnancy, etc.), pre-natal care (mother's habits & nutrition), treatments for premature births, gene therapies, adult stem cell treatments, and surgical techniques of all kinds.

This gets easier if I list things at high level because the details just go on and on.

261 posted on 10/04/2005 10:57:07 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: <1/1,000,000th%; Ready2go
Ok guys I'm just curious here...can anyone give me a example of how believing in the theory of evolution has resulted in any great inventions or cures? What are they?

I've already responded with links to a few item, but now I want to add something. Merely believing in the theory doesn't result in any inventions; nor does merely believing in scripture. Inventions are the result of actually doing some work, based on an intellectual framework. The track record of people working within the methods of science is too well-known to require examples. But I'm wondering what inventions have resulted from following the intellectual methods of theology? (I already know that religious people can do scientific work; I'm asking what inventions result from theology itself.)

262 posted on 10/04/2005 12:32:37 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Disclaimer -- this information may be legally false in Kansas.)
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To: PatrickHenry

Thank you very much Patrick and <1/1,000,000th%...I know things can get very heated over this subject. That's a shame.

And that's exactly what I was getting at Patrick...none of these wonderful things would have been possible without the Intellegence behind them.

So whether you believe you evolved or were created wouldn't have helped or hindered with any of our wonderful scientific discoveries.

The Time of the End
Daniel 12
1 “At that time Michael, the archangel who stands guard over your nation, will arise. Then there will be a time of anguish greater than any since nations first came into existence. But at that time every one of your people whose name is written in the book will be rescued.

2 Many of those whose bodies lie dead and buried will rise up, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3 Those who are wise will shine as bright as the sky, and those who turn many to righteousness will shine like stars forever.

4 But you, Daniel, keep this prophecy a secret; seal up the book until the time of the end. Many will rush here and there, and knowledge will increase.”

God inspired these folks with ideas that they worked on and figured out. He's the one that gave them wisdom and knowledge.

None of these things wonderful things evolved by themselves.

God loves all of us and doesn't want anyone to be lost, so he's given mankind the wisdom and knowledge to stop folks from dying, and allowed them to come back and tell us everything they've seen when they were legally dead.

Luke 16 The Rich Man and Lazarus

19 Jesus said, “There was a certain rich man who was splendidly clothed and who lived each day in luxury.

20 At his door lay a diseased beggar named Lazarus.

21 As Lazarus lay there longing for scraps from the rich man’s table, the dogs would come and lick his open sores.

22 Finally, the beggar died and was carried by the angels to be with Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried,

23 and his soul went to the place of the dead. There, in torment, he saw Lazarus in the far distance with Abraham.

24 “The rich man shouted, ‘Father Abraham, have some pity! Send Lazarus over here to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in anguish in these flames.’

25 “But Abraham said to him, ‘son, remember that during your lifetime you had everything you wanted, and Lazarus had nothing. So now he is here being comforted, and you are in anguish.

26 And besides, there is a great chasm separating us. Anyone who wanted to cross over to you from here is stopped at its edge, and no one there can cross over to us.’

27 “Then the rich man said, ‘Please, Father Abraham, send him to my father’s home.

28 For I have five brothers, and I want him to warn them about this place of torment so they won’t have to come here when they die.’

29 “But Abraham said, ‘Moses and the prophets have warned them. Your brothers can read their writings anytime they want to.’

30 “The rich man replied, ‘No, Father Abraham! But if someone is sent to them from the dead, then they will turn from their sins.’

31 “But Abraham said, ‘If they won’t listen to Moses and the prophets, they won’t listen even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Thanks once again guys for responding. And I know I won't be able to change your beliefs, but hopefully some lurkers might decide to check the Bible out for themselves. :)


263 posted on 10/04/2005 4:12:24 PM PDT by Ready2go (Isa 5:20 Destruction is certain for those who say that evil is good and good is evil;)
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To: Ready2go

"LaLaLaLaLa, I don't hear you!" placemark.


264 posted on 10/04/2005 5:18:07 PM PDT by dread78645 (Sorry Mr. Franklin, We couldn't keep it.)
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