Grow Some Testables: Intelligent design ducks the rigors of science.

Slate.com ^ | Sept. 29, 2005 | William Saletan

[indcons]

Four months ago, when evolution and "intelligent design" (ID) squared off in Kansas, I defended ID as a more evolved version of creationism. ID posits that complex systems in nature must have been designed by an intelligent agent. The crucial step forward is ID's concession that "observation, hypothesis testing, measurement, experimentation, logical argument and theory building" not scriptural authority define science. Having acknowledged that standard, advocates of ID must now demonstrate how hypotheses based on it can be tested by experiment or observation. Otherwise, ID isn't science.

This week, ID is on trial again in Pennsylvania. And so far, its proponents aren't taking the experimental test they accepted in Kansas. They're ducking it.

The Pennsylvania case involves a policy, adopted by the board of the Dover Area School District, that requires ninth-grade biology teachers to tell students about ID. According to the policy, "A theory is defined as a well-tested explanation that unifies a broad range of observations." So far, so good.

[indcons]

I think the author's point is that ID cannot be examined scientifically. Looks like the ID folks also agree with this view.

[little jeremiah]

Thanks!

Here's a suggestion. Why can't science teachers spend a few minutes, after or during a discussion on evolution, say something like this:

"There are some scientists and others who have some criticisms of the theory of evolution. They say there are holes in its arguments. If anyone would like to read about their criticisms, here are some books they have written. You're welcome to read them after school."

Or even bring the books up in school - discuss the points they make. Why not? If evolution is sancrosanct, and its proponents have to call evolution non-believers idiots, fools and even "wicked", this does not promote healthy discussion.

Until very recently, I never ever (well, hardly ever!) visited any evolution threads. No point. And I plan not to in the future. But I am currently reading Behe's "Darwin's Black Box" and recently finished "Shattering the Myths of Darwinism" by Richard Milton. Why not have a discussion of the arguments they raise? What could be the harm? If authors such as those two (and there are others) are rejected out-of-hand because they don't accept Darwinist evolutionary theory, then what kind of truth is science searching for?

If the only legitimate participants in the evolution debate are those who agree beforehand that the TOE is true, and those with grave doubts are prevented from taking part, something is terribly wrong.

[LaineyDee]

LOL

[MedicalMess]

Intelligent Design murders people!

Because people believe in God no one asked how Jesus cured his patients. No one went looking for the twelve crops the twelve disciples carried around to do the healing. Read Revelations and buy a clue. He was warning people of food-borne pathogens and sexually transmitted diseases. He had "hidden manna", special crops he employed to do the healing. His first cousin John was about to spill the beans and use the formula as a weapon to force people into Christian morality. The formula is referred to as the "Tree of Life". There are only two places it is mentioned in the Bible, at the very beginning and the very end. It is the Alpha and the Omega.

Moses also knew the formula described as the "Tree of Life". It wasn't hard to figure out. All the Pharaohs had to do was compare those raised on agriculture foods versus those captured that belonged to hunter/gather groups and what they ate. Moses had the formula, kept it from the people and only shared it with his inner circle of ten or so buddies.

Read your own Bible. They created God, and in doing so, they covered up the cure for incurable diseases and killed over a billion people between 1500 BC and present day.

When properly interpreted, the Bible completely backs the evolution of Man. When you worship God and say God is responsible for things you can't explain you fail to solve problems in a rational manner and this causes great agony to our whole society.

It is a fraud. It is inhuman cruelty.

Intelligent Design must be stopped to save lives. We have all suffered enough from religious doctrine which covers up truths and results in mass murder.

[little jeremiah]

"Please, someone, demonstrate how that can be done by evolution as well."

Yes, let's have a little "evolution farm" and "ID farm" like ant farms.

Evolution can never ever be proved, and ID (from what I've read) is basically showing holes in the theory of evolution. The only way either could be proved is by going back in time. What I don't understand is why teachers cannot, if they have to teach/want to teach the theory of evolution, such as it is, simply point out that some scientists consider the TOE to have some holes, and discuss those holes.

This has nothing to do with teaching "religion" in schools.

Although bringing the dreaded word "God" into the classroom isn't exactly Congress passing a law establishing a state religion.

[claptrap]

SO are you proposing massive witch hunts with interrogations on Court TV?

[strategofr]

"Until ID actually comes up with some type of evidence, it's all conjecture."

Actually, the argument here is a little different. Its that ID can't come up with evidence, in the scientific sense, because as a hypothesis it is incomplete.

It says gap in evolution are a result of "intelligent design", but doesn't specify what might cause the design. So ID theory is not a real theory, it doesn't even propose a statment that can be tested. So it is not science. The logical flaw is fundamental.

[claptrap]

Alernative books, would they get extra points for reading
these books suggesting supernatural agency as opposed to
endlessly slow gradual change in life forms as the fossilizedrecord suggests to those of the Evolution camp.

[strategofr]

"The response must be the Killer Robots as described in Frank Saberhagens Berserker Series"

LOL! 1 extra point for even mentioning the Berserker series. I had both feet operated on once, and a sci fi nut dropped off this whole series for me to read. Great stuff.

[little jeremiah]

"Shattering the Myths of Darwinism" doesn't suggest any alternative method for the development of life forms; just points out some holes in Darwinism.

Behe's book doesn't say much about supernatural stuff yet, I'm only half way through.

I am also reading "Darwin on Trial" and the Phillip Johnson does use the "G" word upfront.

[TheCrusader]

"Regardless of what many of you think, Evolution --as a theory -- does have a lot to back it up."

I have to disagree with this. The Creation belief is held mostly on faith, but not entirely. It does have a 3,000 year old document to "back it up".
(I am NOT making the case that the Old Testament provides us with "proof", but it's time-honored, enduring teaching for over 3,000 years certainly provides affirmation comparable to the interesting but inconclusive evidence the scientist holds).

Evolution, on the other hand, is held entirely as a theory, (though there are many who want to teach it as 'fact', it is far from being scientifically provable).

To date, the scientific evidence supporting evolution is the legal equivalent of 'circumstantial evidence'. The case, (or theory as it may be) has some evidential backing, but absolutely no solid proof.

Thankfully, our society has enough brains and conscience to not convict people of crimes based on circumstantial evidence. The risk of punishing an innocent person is just to great. So why intelligent people chose to believe in the theory of Evolution with great conviction is beyond me; unless, of course, it pleases them to undermine the religious belief.

In any case, it's doubtful that scientists will ever be able to prove our human origin as convincingly, say, as they can prove that gravity exists. Until they do, I think it's an outrage that they try to make Evolution the predominent belief over Creation by teaching it to our school children while banning the teaching of Creation. (This of course shows a huge bias, and shows they are very much afraid of Creation).

[taxesareforever]

Evolution --as a theory -- does have a lot to back it up.

Yeah, a lot of shove it down the throats of our children.

[Mind-numbed Robot]

You can't scientifically prove that God exists, doesn't mean that he doesn't exist.

In fact, if you scientifically proved God that would destroy what you proved as being God by making it finite, or provable. The generally accepted concept of God is that He is infinite.

[taxesareforever]

I think the author's point is that ID cannot be examined scientifically.

Yes it can. http://www.icr.org/

[cynicom]

There is one place that all sides reach that they must agree on or at least argue no further.

Scientists must reach a basic premise that matter always existed, having originated itself from nothing with no energy available. From this life evolved. Religionists come to a point where they say God always existed, he being life and matter evolved from him.

It is a complicated chicken or egg discussion.

[shuckmaster]

Good article on TROLL infested thread ping!

[Wormwood]

Evolution can never ever be proved, and ID (from what I've read) is basically showing holes in the theory of evolution.

ID attempts to fill in those "holes" with magic. Is that science?

[ATOMIC_PUNK]

In The KJV of the Bible
Intelligent design is just as Scientific as Science itself !
as well as Spiritual !

nature occurs 12 times in 11 verses
time occurs 620 times in 563 verses
priest occurs 497 times in 442 verses
seek occurs 244 times in 233 verses
holy occurs 611 times in 544 verses
god occurs 4447 times in 3878 verses
saviour occurs 37 times in 37 verses
lord occurs 7836 times in 6668 verses
jesus occurs 983 times in 942 verses
satan occurs 55 times in 49 verses
love occurs 310 times in 280 verses
hate occurs 87 times in 85 verses
poor occurs 205 times in 197 verses
rich occurs 81 times in 80 verses
unclean occurs 194 times in 158 verses
dead occurs 364 times in 331 verses
alive occurs 88 times in 86 verses
camel occurs 9 times in 9 verses
dog occurs 15 times in 15 verses
sheep occurs 187 times in 178 verses
wolves occurs 7 times in 7 verses
one occurs 1967 times in 1695 verses
two occurs 835 times in 703 verses
three occurs 485 times in 426 verses
four occurs 328 times in 282 verses
five occurs 345 times in 270 verses
six occurs 202 times in 190 verses
seven occurs 463 times in 391 verses
eight occurs 80 times in 80 verses
nine occurs 50 times in 49 verses
ten occurs 248 times in 223 verses
eleven occurs 24 times in 24 verses
twelve occurs 189 times in 165 verses
thirteen occurs 15 times in 15 verses
fourteen occurs 26 times in 23 verses
fifteen occurs 24 times in 24 verses
sixteen occurs 23 times in 23 verses
seventeen occurs 10 times in 10 verses
eighteen occurs 22 times in 22 verses
nineteen occurs 3 times in 3 verses:
twenty occurs 293 times in 262 verses
fight occurs 107 times in 103 verses
man occurs 2615 times in 2331 verses
woman occurs 360 times in 335 verses
children occurs 1803 times in 1516 verses
child occurs 201 times in 181 verses
women occurs 178 times in 169 verses
men occurs 1653 times in 1489 verses
son occurs 2371 times in 1785 verses
daughter occurs 324 times in 288 verses
world occurs 287 times in 248 verses
corrupt occurs 33 times in 31 verses
violence occurs 57 times in 56 verses
egypt occurs 611 times in 558 verses
deceive occurs 27 times in 27 verses
deceived occurs 34 times in 31 verses
moon occurs 51 times in 51 verses
stars occurs 51 times in 50 verses
wisdom occurs 234 times in 222 verses
dream occurs 74 times in 61 verses
free occurs 59 times in 58 verses
freedom occurs 2 times in 2 verses
liberty occurs 27 times in 25 verses
trust occurs 134 times in 134 verses
cross occurs 28 times in 28 verses
chastise occurs 10 times in 10 verses
punish occurs 32 times in 32 verses
darkness occurs 162 times in 142 verses
light occurs 272 times in 235 verses
ever occurs 476 times in 417 verses
christ occurs 555 times in 522 verses
christian occurs 2 times in 2 verses

Dan 1:4

Children in whom [was] no blemish, but well favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as [had] ability in them to stand in the king's palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans.



1Ti 6:20

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane [and] vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

[Just mythoughts]

Evolution is atheism!