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Fair Tax vs. Flat Tax
TownHall.Com ^ | 9/29/05 | Neeal Boortz and Daniel J. Mitchell

Posted on 09/29/2005 10:29:26 PM PDT by Sprite518

A good quick read...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: astupidsquirrel; boortz; cluelessdupes; cluelesskoolaiddrunk; drinkthatkoolaid; fairtax; fairtaxisnt; flattax; growupgroanup; hr25; irs; itisnotreform; koolaiddrinkerdopes; mitchell; moreboortzbs; notbuyingthebs; nrst; onlyflattaxisfairtax; regressivetaxes; salestaxaintreform; sameoldcrap; snakeoil; sorrycharlie; taxreform; taxreformitaint
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To: Paul C. Jesup
Simple, you can choose to keep that money and chose not spend it.

Did you even read what you wrote? What is the point of saving money if you cannot use it?

And FYI: I was not referring to any "tax-deferred" savings plans. I was referring to the run-of-the-mill bank account.

81 posted on 09/30/2005 7:55:21 AM PDT by Prime Choice (E=mc^3. Don't drink and derive.)
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To: Sprite518

Either the rate is a lie or it isn't a sales tax.

Sales taxes and the Fair Tax are not computed the same way so why are the FT supporters lying about one or the other.

If the rate was 23% the taxes on a 100.00 item would be 23.00 not the 29.98 it really is under the FT plan.


82 posted on 09/30/2005 7:55:31 AM PDT by SolarisRocks
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To: Prime Choice

"I'm sure that, here in the States, we'd wind up doing as much...only with bigger fines, and with RFID chips. If a product doesn't have RFID, the consumer will be branded a 'tax evader' and subject to a 'tax inventory,' (the new "tax audit" by the 'non-IRS' under the increasingly-misnamed 'fair tax') that would beget even larger fines than the Italian government could ever conjure."

Just curious .... are you paranoid about any other subjects other than the FairTax? It is readily apparent that you certainly aren't paranoid about the current tax system, which has exponentially greater potential for abuse than the FairTax does.


83 posted on 09/30/2005 7:56:26 AM PDT by phil_will1 (My posts are in no way limited or restricted by previously expressed SQL opinions)
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To: Paul C. Jesup
Yeah...you honestly think that the government isn't going to be entirely aggressive about taxation? Just look at the way they hunt down online purchasers of tobacco products for how your "not-the-IRS" government entity will work.

And please...if you think that state governments will satisfy the Federal tax money wants, try looking at how well Louisiana runs things in concert with the feds and get back to me.

As for your "fair tax" (sic) bill abolishing the IRS...it will obviously abolish it in name only. If you think the infrastructure won't remain with the same people at the helm, you're kidding yourself.

84 posted on 09/30/2005 7:58:29 AM PDT by Prime Choice (E=mc^3. Don't drink and derive.)
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To: Sprite518
Look right do you know how much money is being kept in off shore accounts for tax evasion? It has been estimated to be as high as 12 Trillion! Yeah that is right with a "T"...

And under the misguided "fair tax" plan, those dollars would be just as easily spent overseas...thus weakening the U.S. economy and strengthening the economies of other nations.

Helluva plan to turn the U.S. into a Euro-style ghetto, pal.

85 posted on 09/30/2005 8:00:13 AM PDT by Prime Choice (E=mc^3. Don't drink and derive.)
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To: Sprite518
Why do you want to keep forgetting about Withholding?

I didn't. You simply insinuate that I did. Please learn to tell the difference.

86 posted on 09/30/2005 8:00:50 AM PDT by Prime Choice (E=mc^3. Don't drink and derive.)
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To: Sprite518
Even the Flat tax this is being advocated will still have some exemptions as the writer has indicated above.

Then take it up with that writer. As I outlined it, there are no exceptions, exemptions or anything of the kind. Flat tax means flat tax in my book.

87 posted on 09/30/2005 8:02:11 AM PDT by Prime Choice (E=mc^3. Don't drink and derive.)
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To: econjack

Which "F" is that FT? "fair" or "flat"?


88 posted on 09/30/2005 8:02:37 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: phil_will1
Just because someone doesn't fully support your favorite version of tax reform doesn't mean they support the current system.
89 posted on 09/30/2005 8:03:04 AM PDT by SolarisRocks
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To: phil_will1
What is the bill number for that proposal? How many co-sponsors does it have?

I am not a politician. I prefer to make an honest living.

90 posted on 09/30/2005 8:03:43 AM PDT by Prime Choice (E=mc^3. Don't drink and derive.)
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To: Smokin' Joe
Which "F" is that FT? "fair" or "flat"?

Both! The 'F' is for Flapjack!

It will undoubtedly have Komrade Kerry's support.   ;o)

91 posted on 09/30/2005 8:04:29 AM PDT by Prime Choice (E=mc^3. Don't drink and derive.)
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To: Paul C. Jesup
And exactly what parts of HR-25 and S-25 do you have a problem with?

The part that makes the consumer Liable for the tax, unless he has a receipt. The part where the taxing authority can audit you if the merely think you might owe taxes. The part where it is your burden to produce records. The part where the level of proof you owe taxes is not beyond a reasonable doubt, but simply the burden of persuation. There is no freedom for individuals here, despite your claims.

92 posted on 09/30/2005 8:05:30 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: phil_will1
That is your option. Here are the facts. What the 86 TRA did was to essentially flatten the rate chart to two levels and eliminate a number of deductions.

And that backs up my assessment. Flat taxation has no "rate charts." It's one percentage across the board. What was done in 1986 was nothing but an absurdly deceptive modification of the abominable tax code that got us into this mess in the first place.

93 posted on 09/30/2005 8:06:31 AM PDT by Prime Choice (E=mc^3. Don't drink and derive.)
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To: SolarisRocks
What is the tax rate on this sales tax?
The tax rate on the sale is 30% the 23% rate is to fool you.

A $100 item before taxes would be $130.00 after tax..

$30 is 23% of $130.

94 posted on 09/30/2005 8:07:54 AM PDT by lewislynn (Status quo today is the result of eliminating the previous status quo. Be careful what you wish for)
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To: Prime Choice
Then take it up with that writer. As I outlined it, there are no exceptions, exemptions or anything of the kind. Flat tax means flat tax in my book.

The fairtax already has two exceptions in it, so they have no room to talk. There is an exemption college tuition for some unknown reason. And they have a freaky way of calculating sales tax on interest payments that is based on some federal rate that fluctuates.

95 posted on 09/30/2005 8:08:41 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: Prime Choice
The 'F' is for Flapjack!

WHew! And I thought it was a verb...

96 posted on 09/30/2005 8:09:31 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: phil_will1
WIth a simplification of more than 98% in the system being audited, as well as a huge reduction in the number of points of collection and enforcement, whatever level of resources that will be committed to enforcement will be much more effective with a much streamlined system.

You're kidding yourself. The infrastructure will be even larger as every Point-of-Sale device will have to be certified as failure-resistant and its database untamperable. That doesn't come cheap...and it doesn't come without massive government infrastructure.

And then let's get into the ONLINE purchases! Every retailer and wholesaler across the world will have to acquiesce to the Federal bureaucracy if they mean to do business here. You think that isn't going to take a huge government oversight infrastructure? Got news for you.

In the end, you may "abolish" the name of the IRS, but in doing so, you're only going to get a larger, more personally intrusive IRS clone in its place.

97 posted on 09/30/2005 8:10:09 AM PDT by Prime Choice (E=mc^3. Don't drink and derive.)
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To: Prime Choice

"Then take it up with that writer. As I outlined it, there are no exceptions, exemptions or anything of the kind. Flat tax means flat tax in my book."

I'll try again - what is the bill number of your proposal and how many co-sponsors do you have?


98 posted on 09/30/2005 8:11:07 AM PDT by phil_will1 (My posts are in no way limited or restricted by previously expressed SQL opinions)
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To: phil_will1
That isn't an objection that is specific to the FairTax; it can be applied to any serious attempt to reform our tax system. Is that your position - are you opposed to any and all Fundamantal Tax Reform?

No, I just oppose the ones that make false promises. I actually like several apects of the fairtax, it just burns me up that 90% of the claims are pure BS. I support a simplification of the current code and lower rates. The first thing they ought to do is to get rid of the stupid AMT tax.

99 posted on 09/30/2005 8:12:02 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: econjack
That's a nice buzzword reply...and it would fly like a Led Zeppelin with the average American. They're only going to see the part where the cost of everything jumps 23% (and higher).

And the folks who have already paid taxes on their savings will openly revolt at the plan since it will force them to pay double the taxes on the same dollar.

100 posted on 09/30/2005 8:12:46 AM PDT by Prime Choice (E=mc^3. Don't drink and derive.)
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