It's a mad, mad, mad, mad Europe

Jewish World Review ^ | September 29, 2005 | Victor Davis Hanson

[manny613]

After the 2000 elections, George W. Bush became president without a majority vote. Many Europeans snickered at the sorry spectacle of the world's oldest continuous democracy devolving into Third-World election chaos. Few critics cared to hear about the nature of America's two-century-old Electoral College.

[rmlew]

Apologize for the British Empire?
Sorry, but the world should be thanking your ancestors for bringing modern civilization to North America, Africa, and Australia. The British created modern India. Hong Kong is a success built on British rule, albeit with a bit of Hayek.
Most of Africa was better off under British or colonial rule than under the current regimes. Look at Zimbabwe and South Africa.

[kingsurfer]

Thank you for your post. There were certainly some good things to come out of the Empire.

I was on a flight to Kualal Lumpur and got chatting to this girl next to me. She spent the entire flight (about one hour) telling me how good the British system was for the country. In fact virtually every Malaysian I spoke to said the same, and they were all MUSLIMS! I was bloody shocked.The country does well for itself, manages to have few ethnic rivalries (they are a mix of chinese, malays, indians - muslims, christians etc) and their economy is booming. Kuala Lumpur really shows Bangkok for the dump it is. Everything in KL is clean and shiny.

[justa-hairyape]

My point is not to claim one country is worse than another but that in the last 2,000 years ALL "modern and civilised" countries have done barbarous things, the US included.

The article in this thread referred to a large segment of Europeans who have adopted an Anti-US sentiment. Why have they acquired this sentiment ? Especially considering the good will the US has in general shown the world. After all, we could have nuked everyone else. Hitler would have. IMHO its possibly a pshycological fixation with competition between countries, races, city-states, kingdoms and tribes.

[Tolik]

...There are four general lessons here:

First, when Europe is occasionally forced to confront the same human and natural challenges that the United States regularly does, it fares no better and often far worse.

Second, European Big Government can be just as callous as American private enterprise and is often less efficient.

Third, Europeans' anger at the United States reveals their own uncertainty about failing policies that have somehow produced too few jobs. More optimistic countries like India, China, Australia, Japan and many in Eastern Europe look to the future, not the past — and don't seem to scapegoat the United States for their own self-induced problems.

Fourth, to maintain our historical friendship — and we must — it is time to politely let Europeans regain their confidence by standing on their own. Let's start by pulling our remaining troops out. A continent larger and more populous than our own after 60 years can tend to its own defense needs or lack there of — as we Americans move on

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[dervish]

Great article that really nails the hypocrisy of the Europeans.

One point. Europeans had less civil liberties than the US prior to 9/11 and still do even after the Patriot Act.

The EU mandates hate speech laws. These laws are being used to attack people like Oriana Fallaci who speak out against the establishment of Eurabia. A Swedish Minister was convicted for saying homosexuality was "abnormal" in a sermon.

Britain's libel laws are anti-free speech and are used regularly to prevent criticism of Muslim financial supporters of terror and even politicians like Galloway.

France was deporting Muslim clerics prior to 7/11 without any due process. France has almost no protections for accused criminals.

Post 9/11, Ashcroft's Justice brought a suit to stop a school from banning the Hijab. France and parts of Germany ban the hijab in school. France also bans skullcaps and large crosses.

[dervish]

"when, hello, there is one big Church of England as an established church"

Yes, I am struck by that as well. Particularly as the US's often misinterpreted First Amendment provision on freedom of religion is an ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT Clause directed precisely to prevent a US version of the Church of England as a state entity.

[Valin]

After the 2000 elections, George W. Bush became president without a majority vote.

No Winners, Only Losers as Germany Freezes
The American Enterprise Online ^ | 9/28/05 | Ambassador Dan Coats
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1492945/posts

[Valin]

From an historical point of view the Europeans have been a war culture for at least 2,000 years.

Ralph Peters in "Beyond Baghdad" has an interesting piece called "Hidden Unities", inwhich he makes the same point. Worth a look at.

[RegulatorCountry]

LOL, whoever did the mask around Victor Davis Hanson's head should learn to use Photoshop. There is a tool for masking, and the eraser ain't it.

[Paradox]

Look at the former British colonies, vs the former French colonies... The British, as far as I am concerned, SAVED the world for civilization, many times over.

Sure, no culture or country is without its faults and its past maldeeds, but if the world has no "black and white", as the relativists say, I can say with certainty that there are countries that are a far lighter shade of gray (the Anglosphere) than the rest.

[kingsurfer]

The article in this thread referred to a large segment of Europeans who have adopted an Anti-US sentiment. Why have they acquired this sentiment ? Especially considering the good will the US has in general shown the world. After all, we could have nuked everyone else. Hitler would have. IMHO its possibly a pshycological fixation with competition between countries, races, city-states, kingdoms and tribes.
___________________________________________________________

There are plenty of anti-americans in the UK, most of them are anti-English/British also. Both Europe and the US have their idiots/morons. We also have linked histories and pasts that were pretty harsh in a modern context.

[Jorge]

Most Americans admire Europe's cultivated lifestyle, public transportation and sophisticated take on world affairs.

Most Americans? I don't think so.

I think most Americans find the limp-wristed nature of so-called European "sophisticates" nauseating and effeminate.

And who the hell admires European "public transportation" in America? We love the independence of our cars and highways. And the unparalleled amount of air-travel in America afforded by our prosperous life-style.

And as far as Europes "cultivated lifestyle" we can afford twice as much of it as Europeans can, and America takes it a higher level than Europe ever could with their socialism and high taxes.

Give me a break.

[tomjohn77]

DP per capita (US$)
GDP (US$) divided by midyear population. See GDP (US$).

HDI Rank Country GDP per capita (US$)
2003


1 Norway 48,412
2 Iceland 36,377
3 Australia 26,275
4 Luxembourg 59,143
5 Canada 27,079

6 Sweden 33,676
7 Switzerland 43,553
8 Ireland 38,487
9 Belgium 29,096
10 United States 37,648

11 Japan 33,713
12 Netherlands 31,532
13 Finland 31,058
14 Denmark 39,332
15 United Kingdom 30,253

16 France 29,410
17 Austria 31,289
18 Italy 25,471
19 New Zealand 19,847
20 Germany 29,115

[tomjohn77]

Lets see how right Mr. Jorge is?
GDP per capita
1.Luxembourg 59,143
2.Norway 48,412
3.Switzerland 43,553
4.Denmark 39,332
5.Ireland 38,487
6.United States 37,648
7.Iceland 36,377
United Kingdom 30,253
France 29,410
Germany 29,115
Italy 25,471

You see Mr. Jorge should learn a little bit before answering so harsh. He probably thinks there are just four countries in Western Europe. UK, France, Germany and Italy. Its true that the big European countries are underperforming, but there are many mid sized and smaller countries that perform pretty good.

[tomjohn77]

Then we can look at spending on health care Mr. Jorge:
Health expenditure per capita (PPP US$)

HDI Rank Country Health expenditure per capita (PPP US$)
2002


1 Norway 3,409
2 Iceland 2,802
3 Australia 2,699
4 Luxembourg 3,066
5 Canada 2931
6 Sweden 2,512
7 Switzerland 3,446
8 Ireland 2,367
9 Belgium 2,515
10 United States 5,274

11 Japan 2,133
12 Netherlands 2,564
13 Finland 1,943
14 Denmark 2,583
15 United Kingdom 2,160

16 France 2,736
17 Austria 2,220
18 Italy 2,166
19 New Zealand 1,857
20 Germany 2,817

As you see Every US citizen is spending why more on health care.
US $5274
Switzerland 3,446
Norway 3,409
Luxembourg 3,066
Canada 2931

Still the US is better of than the European big 4, but trailing the best 5 performers in Europe.

[SpringheelJack]

You know there's something wrong with Britain and Europe when ... when they sneer at the American Christians and the seemingly unsecular approach to things when, hello, there is one big Church of England as an established church.

He's trying to claim they're being hypocritical, but I don't see it. The COE may still be "official," but it's hardly relevant to the nation as a whole. It's just a figurehead, like the monarchy. Christianity, on the other hand, remains a potent force in American politics and society. That's why they sneer.

[kingsurfer]

He's trying to claim they're being hypocritical, but I don't see it. The COE may still be "official," but it's hardly relevant to the nation as a whole. It's just a figurehead, like the monarchy. Christianity, on the other hand, remains a potent force in American politics and society. That's why they sneer.
___________________________________________________________

Sadly true. I think the Monarchy still retains some respect as an institution but the Anglicans have run themselves into the ground. UK political and social power rests almost entirely on the status quo, there are many good arguements to change the system but if the politicians cannot run the schools or hospitals properly then it is madness to let them reorganise politically what works well.

[Jorge]

You see Mr. Jorge should learn a little bit before answering so harsh. He probably thinks there are just four countries in Western Europe. UK, France, Germany and Italy. Its true that the big European countries are underperforming, but there are many mid sized and smaller countries that perform pretty good.

Who cares about GDP per capita for a few little countries in Europe?
The GDP of the ENTIRE European Union ( what is it, 25 nations?) just barely surpases that of ONE NATION, the United States of America.
That's pretty pathetic.

My point was that the US affords more of the so-called finer things of European culture to far more of it's own citizens than any country in Europe could ever hope to.

[Jorge]

Then we can look at spending on health care Mr. Jorge:

Don't even go there.

Europeans are taxed out the wazzo for an inferior health care system.
People come from all over the world to the United States when they want the BEST in medical treatment.

[nosofar]

Lets see how right Mr. Jorge is?

1.Luxembourg 59,143
2.Norway 48,412
3.Switzerland 43,553
4.Denmark 39,332
5.Ireland 38,487
6.United States 37,648
7.Iceland 36,377
United Kingdom 30,253
France 29,410
Germany 29,115
Italy 25,471

The numbers I get are a bit different from yours. What's your source? These are from the CIA Factbook website. This is just a sampling. Also, these are estimated 2004 figures. I didn't go through all countries.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html

GDP Per Capita (Purchasing Power Parity)

Luxembourg $58,900 (2004 est.)
United States $40,100 (2004 est)
Norway $40,000 (2004 est.)
Denmark $32,200 (2004 est.)
Sweden $28,400 (2004 est.)
Germany $28,700 (2004 est.)