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As Disappointed As You Might Be With The GOP, What Is The Alternative?

Posted on 09/26/2005 5:34:31 PM PDT by mwfsu84

My major complaints with the GOP are Bush's spending, and the stonewalling RINOs in Congress. And yet, what is the alternative? To vote Democrat? Or to not vote at all - which is just as helpful to Dems.

Every time I think how disappointed I am with Bush, I try to remember how much worse it could be with a legitmate Bush-hater.

The Democrats won't cut spending. They'll raise taxes. We'll see national health care. A Democratic President won't nominate moderate SCOTUS justices - unless you consider Ruth Bader Ginsberg a moderate. We'll cow tow to the UN, probably pull out of Iraq, establish relations with Cuba and Hugo Chavez. They'll be no legitimate challenge to the ban on partial birth abortion. This fall, an upcoming SCOTUS case will be whether a minor has a right to have an abortion without parental consent. If a 15 year old child wins that 'right', do you honestly expect ANY leader from the party of Planned Parenthood to challenge it?

You think gas prices are high now? Wait until you see prices caps imposed, Jimmy Carter-style, so you'll have higher prices and longer lines. We'll have a president that preaches to us the value of sacrifice, which as we all know, worked so well during the Carter years.

As disgusted as we are with George W. Bush, we can't give up on the Republican Party.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: gop; govwatch; rinowatch; taxandspendrinos
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To: Centurion2000

"Time to give the constitution party a chance."

That would be throwing away your vote.


141 posted on 09/26/2005 11:23:19 PM PDT by 1035rep
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regardless of issues many here have with Bush II or the GOP, there isn't much choice otherwise....period.

the left is more focused and has the will we often lack

anyone runs to a 3rd party and we'll be worse off than now

as sure as daylight


142 posted on 09/26/2005 11:25:58 PM PDT by wardaddy (You're too good for him.)
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To: mwfsu84

Your points are very well-taken.

The sober truth may not be entertaining or emotionally satisfying, but it needs to be told. Lots of FReepers need to read this sort of thing, often. In other words, they need this dose of reality.

Thanks.


143 posted on 09/26/2005 11:28:04 PM PDT by California Patriot
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To: wardaddy

Why do threads like this one make my spidey sense tingle?
I mean, if I wanted to troll over at Scumbag Underground, I would probably start a thread entitled, "As Disappointed As You Might Be With The Democratic Party, What Is The Alternative?"


144 posted on 09/26/2005 11:32:31 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: mwfsu84

I have many reasons to vote Republican, and right now my number one reason is staying alive. Liberals cannot be trusted with our security


145 posted on 09/26/2005 11:42:18 PM PDT by 1035rep
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To: 1035rep

Yes, if we want to put the argument in one or two sentences -- and sometimes we must -- you've got it.

Well said, sir or ma'am!


146 posted on 09/26/2005 11:53:14 PM PDT by California Patriot
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To: Lancey Howard

I think it's fine to complain.

We have to make changes from within...the multi-farty system ends up looking like Germany....or worse...Israel

Folks are just disappointed that so many GOPers lack the spine they'd like to see.

I don't understand....we are at a GOP highwater mark to date ...in a quite a long time yet we have moderated markedly

were the Dems in our position....they would be pushing their agenda down our throats..or at least trying like all hell

we are the majority but it still feels like we are on defense

i realize a lot of that is the old media


147 posted on 09/26/2005 11:53:17 PM PDT by wardaddy (You're too good for him.)
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To: coconutt2000

Do you think Mike Brown's background prepared him for the job as head of FEMA?


148 posted on 09/26/2005 11:56:00 PM PDT by StarSpangled
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To: 1035rep
Many right wing conservatives don't belive it but Lincoln had it right. This is a nation of the people by the people and for the people.

Politicians are always trying to get to over 50 percent support. Democrats start from the left and move toward the center. They hope to get just to the right of center so they have 50 plus percent of the votes. Republicans start from the right and try to get over 50 percent support. They must get some support to the left of center.

What the right fails to realize is they are just a bit more than a third of the voters. The right must have flunked math. They firmly believe that 36 percent of the voters can cast 51 percent of the votes.

The only way to move the nation to the right is to move the center to the right.

The right looks for a leader who will lead them to right wing heavan. They never get it. Leaders are not the problem .. the voters are the problem. Until they find a way to get more people to vote for conservatives they will not get many conservatives elected.

The right and the left firmly believe that if they just got their message out a majority of people would buy their views.

They don't understand that nearly every voter has heard both messages. Their problem is about 28 percent of the voters do not buy either message. That never stops the right and left from trying to get their message out. They just don't understand that to get elected and change anything one has to have majority support.

Thus to the left the Democrat is never left enough and to the right the Republican is never right enough.

What part of elected officials always try to garner majority support escapes fringe voters.


149 posted on 09/27/2005 12:00:48 AM PDT by Common Tator
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To: StarSpangled

Considering that FEMA is an organization that relies on its head to provide direction, motivation, and leadership... Yes, I do think Brown's background was sufficient to lead that organization.

FEMA is made up of people who know how to do their jobs. What they need is not a micromanaging head, but a clear and motivating leader. The head of FEMA implements the policies of the President.

I've spoken with enough FEMA employees to have an idea of the organization.

But answer me this, did Brown do a competent job of handling past natural disasters during the time that he occupied the post? That alone should answer your question.


150 posted on 09/27/2005 12:06:17 AM PDT by coconutt2000 (NO MORE PEACE FOR OIL!!! DOWN WITH TYRANTS, TERRORISTS, AND TIMIDCRATS!!!! (3-T's For World Peace))
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To: coconutt2000

FEMA did a grand job in the Florida hurricanes of 2004. Maybe because Jeb Bush knew how to expedite assistance properly?


151 posted on 09/27/2005 12:25:01 AM PDT by StarSpangled
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To: StarSpangled

So you agree with me that local preparedness and the lack of it were the primary contributors of delays and incompetence in the Federal response to Hurricane Katrina, and that Brown cannot be held responsible for the local failures that impeded his departments response.

Focusing on his credentials is irrelevant because he held the job and did a competent job... a better job than his Clinton appointed predecessors. This record vindicates the fact that Bush knew what he was doing when he appointed Brown to the post.

I do agree that cronyism is a problem and that there are infinitely more qualified persons in the world who have the resumés and the experience to take the job and hit the ground running. I don't dispute that. But the purpose of the positions is to provide the president with the power to enact his policy across the board in every department through his appointees.

We saw the effects of what happens when you have bad policies when we look at how Clinton's appointees implemented a lot of questionable, irrelevant political correctness in the CIA, FBI, and the Pentagon. They implemented the policies of the sitting President. Poor policies, regardless of the competency of the leadership, leads to dysfunctional organizations. In recent history we can see how the poor disaster preparedness policies of Governor Blanco (LA) led directly to a dysfunctional local response to the disaster. Regardless of whether or not Blanco had been a competent leader, her policies were contradictory to proper preparation, and her incompetence came through when it came to admitting she had made an error. She made sure that the Federal response was unable to respond properly because she controlled the information and the power to restrict the Federal governments involvement.

Former FEMA director Brown was never the problem, and his track record, when compared to others who have held the post, was exemplary. Blaming him because he didn't have the "background" or "experience" is an irrelevant point that only had relevancy when he was appointed to the post, not several years after he's done a good job. It is time to give Brown a certificate that says he now has the experience and the background to work in disaster response management, not to denigrate a man who served this country in a capacity that many of us never will.


152 posted on 09/27/2005 12:58:33 AM PDT by coconutt2000 (NO MORE PEACE FOR OIL!!! DOWN WITH TYRANTS, TERRORISTS, AND TIMIDCRATS!!!! (3-T's For World Peace))
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To: mwfsu84
As disgusted as we are with George W. Bush, we can't give up on the Republican Party.

Then they can do any stupid damn thing they want to, can't they? Your vote is a given, no matter what. They can tax and tax, spend and spend, waste and waste - you'll keep saying "that's fine."

Well, screw that. I don't vote for Big Government politicians, no matter what party they use to steal from us. To hell with sleazy, greedy, power-mad weasels like that.

If the choice is bad, or worse - don't vote. Or vote Libertarian. Or Constitution.

Why reward crappy politicians, as you propose to do? How much does Bush have to piss away before you get mad and say "NO!"?

153 posted on 09/27/2005 1:05:51 AM PDT by Hank Rearden (Never allow anyone who could only get a government job attempt to tell you how to run your life.)
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To: mwfsu84

As Disappointed As You Might Be With The GOP, What Is The Alternative?



http://www.JimGilchrist.com



Time for a wake-up call.


154 posted on 09/27/2005 1:09:49 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (The Left is having a Category 5 'Wellstone Moment'.)
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To: Perdogg
My major complaint is that Bush won't fight back or take credit when credit is due

Your sentiments are very understandable. However, President Bush is an excellent Wu Li Master in re politics, IMHO. His position, as you cite, has continued to make him a target and focus point of his opponents. His opponents play the game of MSM 'Kingmaker" - Claiming credit whether due or not, and big "talks" on how one will fight fight fight. This is how the left plays.

Bush Admin knows this well. The left are "glory hogs". By perpetually dancing in and out of the "spotlight", the left has maintained their focus upon the man, President Bush, personally. He is defying their secular humanist version of "God" by not taking those positions you wished he would.

In other words, President Bush is very good at taking the bull by the horns.

Be of good cheer! :)

155 posted on 09/27/2005 2:27:33 AM PDT by Alia
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie
Laura Ingram had a guest on who suggested the Admin put a man on the ground ( not from the Pentagon) who Daily or every other day reports to the Americans how well we are doing in Iraq.As it is now the administration is selling out our troops by NOt doing great PR. And all we do is whine about the MSM.

There are PLENTY of outlets covering and supporting the WOT progress in Iraq and Afghanistan. Do you suggest the Bush Admin by decree or fiat order the MSM to "cover" those sites?

People have the freedom in America to search out truth. They do not have to rely upon the MSM and their webbed allies.

John Edwards proposes a divided America -- the Two Americas. Whereas President Bush, in his first innaugral address basically posed this question to Americans: What do you believe about your country? And are you willing to make those beliefs real?

Feminists talk about "choice" but only within the narrowest confines possible.

President Bush's version of "choice" is massive!

156 posted on 09/27/2005 2:33:34 AM PDT by Alia
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To: rdb3
If you think that the Pubs are using you, well, use them back. But you are only truly being used when you vote 3rd party as it stands today.

Yes, you are quite right.

Back in the 90s, there was this period of time when this matter was made clearer and obvious -- a window, so to speak -- it parsed very clearly for a time before it was obscured and "distracted from" once again.

The moment had to do with all the various 3rd party political groups... and the issue of marriage.

I was lucky to catch this phwam. Basically, we do have two parties -- Democrats and Republicans; and then in re marriage: that which is between a man and a woman.

At this time, there were the usual peripheral columns parsing that Dems were the party of females and Repubs were the party of males.

So, I made up my mind to stay connected to the 3rd party political groups; but clearly to stay on focus with regard to "supporting" a Democrat and Republican Parties "forum".

Since that time, MoveOn and other radical liberal groups have been working hard to seize control of the Democratic party in order to make "gay marriage" the major tent peg of the Democratic party.

Repubs saw this too, and simply moved out of liberal way to not at all "stop" this activity.

And why? lol...

As the Democrats get more and more taken over by their radical supporters, this then makes the Republican party the party of males and females -- the marriage party.

As the Dems lose more of their constituent base, the "political door" gets opened to a genuine and newer opposition party (perhaps it will be the Constitution Party, it certainly won't be Greenies or Libertarians (as they currently stand) ).

And this is why we see folks like Hillary attempting to move towards center, hoping, they can ride the wave of whatever that newer opposition party will become. It's quite fetching to observe this, from my chair. As it is clear to me that Party Democrats yet have no idea what or who that newer opposition group will be.

At this pinpoint of time, Dems can only assert they are for abortion and for gay marriage. That's about it. Repubs worried? Not! lol.

As Party Heads in Dem scan the horizon looking to see WHAT party will be replacing the Dems.. they are not looking to coalesce the new group, but rather the ride the wave on herd.

And this is why there is so much disarray. There's a party out there looking for a leader to lead them, and then there's Dem Big Heads looking not to lead; but to capitalize upon whatever a newer group has cobbled together.

Cat chasing its tail. Or rather, tailspin.

157 posted on 09/27/2005 2:48:01 AM PDT by Alia
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To: coconutt2000

Sorry, I think your defense of Mike Brown is bending way too far over backwards. I think there were screw ups at all levels, from city to the feds. Everybody did a bad job. from the President all the way down to the mayor of New Orleans. I hope they can all learn from their mistakes.


158 posted on 09/27/2005 2:49:13 AM PDT by StarSpangled
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To: Reagan Man
When Reagan took office the Federal Deficit was 711 Billion dollars When Reagan left office the Federal Deficit was 2,051 Billion.

When Reagan took office the total Federal Expenditures was 590 billion dollars. When Reagan left office the Federal Expenditures were 1,051 Billion dollars.

Your posted figures and fancy graphs failed to include entitlement spending. The number left out of your graphs was for Reagans Last year was 400 Billion dollars worth of social entitlement spending. You got graphs that left that number out. If you want to play with number try this atempt to lie with numbers. Social entitlements in fiscal 1988 would have been 80 percent of the Budget in 1981.

Reagan did not cut a penny off of the Welfare state. He Doubled it... In case you don't remember it was Bill Clinton who Cut Welfare.. NOT Reagan. Reagan increased it

Do you think we don't remember Reagan claiming in the 1984 debates that he had not cut social spending. I lead my next morning's newscasts with that story. Reagan in his debate with Mondale claimed he had only cut the rate of increase in spending. Reagan bragged in the 1984 debates with Mondale that he had increased social net spending every year for the last 4 years.

Who should we believe Reagan or YOU???

Figures don't lie but Liars can certainly figure


159 posted on 09/27/2005 3:41:09 AM PDT by Common Tator
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To: Alia
The system is designed so that if one party starts to lose support the other party wins the elections.

Thus if a third party on the right forms it splits the right and the left wins. As the left implements its agenda the right gets scared and outraged. It unites and then wins elections.

If the left gets split the Republicans win. When they implement their agenda the Democrats get scared and outraged... they get back together and win elections.

The system was designed by Democrats and Republicans to perpetuate the Democrat and Republican parties. It is designed to see that all other parties fail. And guess what? It works exactly as designed.

160 posted on 09/27/2005 3:47:39 AM PDT by Common Tator
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