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Used car bargain may be all wet
Waterbury Republican-American ^ | September 17, 2005 | James Prichard (A.P.)

Posted on 09/17/2005 7:50:54 AM PDT by Graybeard58

GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. -- In the market for a good used car? Watch out for vehicles that sat submerged for days in the flooded streets of New Orleans, Biloxi or other Gulf Coast cities ravaged by Hurricane Katrina.

Insurance companies usually purchase such vehicles from policyholders, declare them "totaled" and then sell them at auction to be resold for parts, many of which will still be suitable for use in other cars and trucks.

But some unscrupulous dealers and wholesalers buy flood-damaged cars at scrap prices, clean them up, retitle them and resell them. The vehicles may look good, but their electronics and safety systems are likely damaged -- and threaten the safety of the new owners.

After virtually every major U.S. flood, the Better Business Bureau warns prospective used car buyers to be on the lookout for flood-damaged vehicles.

"You want to be extra cautious," said Ken Vender Meeden, president of the Grand Rapids-based Better Business Bureau of Western Michigan. "Unfortunately, deals that sound too good to be true for cars could include damaged goods. 'Let the buyer beware' applies most readily in post-hurricane-type disasters."

When Hurricane Floyd struck Florida in 1999, an estimated 75,000 vehicles were ruined by floods and totaled by insurance companies, according to Carfax Inc., a Fairfax, Va.-based firm that performs background checks on used vehicles.

More than half of those cars and trucks, however, were resold to buyers unaware of the vehicles' past or uninformed about the extent of the damage caused by flooding, Carfax said.

Carfax estimates, based on information it has received from law enforcement and government authorities, that between 250,000 and 500,000 vehicles could have been damaged by flood waters generated by Katrina.

Prospective buyers should have a used car's history researched to make sure a flood-damaged title hasn't been issued for it, Carfax spokesman Larry Gamache said. A search using a vehicle identification number can be performed for a fee at Web sites such as Carfax.com and AutoCheck.com.

A mechanic also should inspect the vehicle.

"A mechanic is going to be able to look for signs of water damage that won't appear on a title document or a piece of paper," Gamache said. "Things like water levels in the engine well, rusting wires. He can look inside your ventilation system and see if there's any debris."

Prospective buyers also can do a bit of detective work themselves. The National Automobile Dealers Association, which represents approximately 20,000 new car and truck dealers, offers a 10-step inspection checklist to guide shoppers.

While there's no foolproof way to detect vehicle flood damage, NADA officials say potential buyers should inspect the interior, trunk and engine compartment for rust, musty odors and other signs of significant water damage.

"Dealers are very concerned these affected vehicles could enter the used car market," said Jack Kain, chairman of the McLean, Va.-based association. "Fortunately, there are steps that car shoppers can take to detect water damage and protect themselves."

While nearly all states have laws against sellers misrepresenting flood-damaged cars and trucks to their buyers, the nation needs a uniform system for clearly identifying such vehicles, said Clarence Ditlow, executive director of the Center for Auto Safety.

Ditlow said his Washington-based advocacy group has lobbied state and federal lawmakers to mandate the words "flood damaged" be placed on certificates of title of all flooded vehicles.

He also wants to require that "flood damaged" markers be placed on doorjambs of affected vehicles. The sale of all used cars should include disclosure sheets listing any known problems, he said.

"Every consumer buying vehicles should be aware that they may be buying flooded vehicles," Ditlow said. "Just because you live in Nevada, don't think you aren't going to run into a flooded vehicle."

Jim Casey, a manager at Berger Chevrolet in Grand Rapids, said his dealership checks the titles of all used vehicles it purchases at auction and accepts in trades to make sure none have had flood damage.

Casey advised potential buyers to closely examine titles, which can be altered, falsified or laundered through another state.

In Michigan, titles for good cars are printed on green paper while titles for salvage vehicles are printed on orange paper.

"There are ways to get a clean title (for a flood-damaged car) and that's the thing that people need to be aware of," he said.


TOPICS: Extended News; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: carfax; cartitles; flooddamage; salvage; usedcars
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To: investigateworld
A frog in the glove-box can also be considered a major clue :^)

I'd be more concerned about water moccasins under the seat.

21 posted on 09/17/2005 8:32:34 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (Remember and pray for Sgt. Matt Maupin - MIA/POW- Iraq since 04/09/04)
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To: investigateworld

Seriously, a car that's been underwater for days will never be the same again. Mostly it's all those electrical connections and sensors. Even if you manage to clean it up and get that fishy smell out, things will just stop working at times, from windows and door locks to the engine. It is possible to WD-40 every single connector and plug, but even then you will have strange problems. And that fishy smell always comes back in the summer.


22 posted on 09/17/2005 8:36:51 AM PDT by Sender (Team Infidel USA)
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To: Graybeard58

Graybeard58 wrote:"
A lot of Corinthian cows will pay for this disaster with their lives. We'd better alert PETA."

--I wonder how they take the flood smell/stains out of the leather seats?


23 posted on 09/17/2005 8:36:52 AM PDT by 1FASTGLOCK45 (FreeRepublic: More fun than watching Dem'Rats drown like Turkeys in the rain! ! !)
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To: Graybeard58
But some unscrupulous dealers and wholesalers buy flood-damaged cars at scrap prices, clean them up, retitle them and resell them.

But not all flooded vehicles go that route. Plenty of individual operators will be fixing up these cars and selling them on the side, side-stepping the insurance companies, Car Fax, etc.

I always laugh when "they" tell you to have a mechanic check out a car before you buy it. Whatta they think, we're gonna convince a seller to let us have the car for a day or two and pay a mechanic $120/hr (or whatever the heck it is nowadays) to pour over every car we're thinking about buying? No thanks.

Personally, in the future I think I'll just avoid all used cars up through model year 2005.

24 posted on 09/17/2005 8:46:20 AM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: Sender
I would never touch one. The vehicle computer which controls everything can run $1300 in a common type domestic vehicles, more in an import.
The sheet metal would work for repairing other cars, okay...but that ain't my biz.
25 posted on 09/17/2005 8:53:25 AM PDT by investigateworld ( Abortion stops a beating heart.)
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To: 1FASTGLOCK45
"--I wonder how they take the flood smell/stains out of the leather seats?"

Usually they gut them and replace the interior with junkyard parts.

Years ago I had a friend who came across a "great deal". A Z-28 Camaro who's owner died in the car. My buddy completely gutted the interior - every piece of upholstery and fabric that might hold the lingering oder of death, and replaced it all - to no avail.

On warm days the car reeked. There was nothing he could do about it and ultimately had to part the car out, because he couldn't find a buyer.
26 posted on 09/17/2005 9:08:02 AM PDT by rockrr (Gregorovych Nyet!)
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To: rockrr

The tv show on Discovery Channel, Myth Busters showed how you just can't recover a car when a person dies in it. They put meat (whole pig) in a fancy late model car and had the experts try to recover. No one could, hazmat suits had to be warn to dispose of the car.


27 posted on 09/17/2005 9:32:05 AM PDT by StuLongIsland
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To: Graybeard58
I realize you were quoting someone else.
I though I had made that apparent in my post.
I'm sorry you misunderstood. Following is your original post:

"The steel mines could almost be closed down for several months"
Steel mines?
End of your post.

I thought I was merely agreeing with you that there is no such thing as a steel mine.
I guess I'll just throw myself on my sword.
I apologize again for offending you so much. I hope that you can find it in your heart to possibly think of entertaining the thought of possibly considering the possibilrty of taking into consideration this heart-felt apology.
28 posted on 09/17/2005 9:46:47 AM PDT by Brainhose (THINK OF THE KITTENS!)
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To: Brainhose

maybe


29 posted on 09/17/2005 10:07:30 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (Remember and pray for Sgt. Matt Maupin - MIA/POW- Iraq since 04/09/04)
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To: Graybeard58
That's why one should run a Carfax check on any used car prior to purchase to check the title. Extended Warranty companies will not warranty a car with a rebuilt or laundered title. I would never buy a rebuilt car - why risk your kids' life? And it goes without saying to have an independent mechanic check the car for any expensive problems - these are the ones that typically show up after a purchase of a used car. A used car can be an excellent value for those who do their homework - don't count on the salesman doing it for you.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
30 posted on 09/17/2005 10:13:33 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Graybeard58
My Daughter and her husband bought a car which had been flooded and restored. Now they were told up front that it had been restored.

I told them it was probably a bad buy but they had both just graduated from college and were starting out without much money. They bought it, and to my surprise, it never gave them any trouble. Apparantly it can be done if done correctly.

31 posted on 09/17/2005 10:19:44 AM PDT by yarddog
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To: Brainhose

After careful consideration, I being the magnanimous and gracious fellow that I am and in the interest of comity, have decided to accept what you said and do so without delving into any underlying or sinister motives on your part.

I did check your resume and references but I don't call that "delving", just being careful, as are most self respecting members of this forum.

I'm off to an arts and crafts fair now with my wife. I asked her if I could just take a beatin' instead but she says she wants my opinion on myriads of items and "works of art".

If you were only here, I could explain to her the utter necessity of we two scholars retiring to the local bistro to solve the worlds problems and more mundane issues as well, if we only had the time.


32 posted on 09/17/2005 10:37:58 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (Remember and pray for Sgt. Matt Maupin - MIA/POW- Iraq since 04/09/04)
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To: Graybeard58

Ebay shyster ping


33 posted on 09/17/2005 10:45:11 AM PDT by Rakkasan1 (The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.)
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To: Graybeard58

Anytime one buys a used car you are taking a chance. I've bought my share over the years and even if they are checked by a "mechanic" and are not flood damaged they can still have significant problems. That's why I buy them new.

There are going to be a whole bunch of pissed off used car buyers in the future from these flood cars. They'll even have a "60 minutes" piece for sure.


34 posted on 09/17/2005 11:28:15 AM PDT by RichardW
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To: Graybeard58

Everytime a section of the country floods, we get this "warning" from the press. Lazy reporters, dusting off an old story.


35 posted on 09/17/2005 11:30:11 AM PDT by toddlintown (Your papers please.)
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To: Graybeard58
Ho-hum.

Bush's Fault.

36 posted on 09/17/2005 11:37:58 AM PDT by N. Theknow (If you need a business, then make it your business to mind your own business.)
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carfax had a free trial a few months back. a bunch of people on another forum who had cars that had been in a major wreck put there cars in and they came up clean.

they can't know everything, but I guess its better than nothing


37 posted on 09/17/2005 11:57:59 AM PDT by KneelBeforeZod ( I'm going to open Cobra Kai dojos all over this valley!)
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To: Graybeard58

There will be a boatload of flood cars on sale all over the country. Many years ago, a friend of mine got a "real deal" on a 74 Caprice, only to find it smelled like rotten fish whenever it rained.


38 posted on 09/17/2005 12:12:45 PM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: Brainhose

Are Naugas only useful for the hyde or is the meat tasty?


39 posted on 09/17/2005 12:35:40 PM PDT by RipSawyer (Acceptance of irrational thinking is expanding exponentiallly.)
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To: StuLongIsland
The tv show on Discovery Channel, Myth Busters showed how you just can't recover a car when a person dies in it. They put meat (whole pig) in a fancy late model car and had the experts try to recover. No one could, hazmat suits had to be warn to dispose of the car.

Ahh... but in the end, they were able to sell the car (for parts).... so the myth of a "car too smelly to sell" was busted.

40 posted on 09/17/2005 5:36:59 PM PDT by mwyounce
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