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Child's afterschool tantrum thwarts officer
St. Petersburg Times ^ | September 17, 2005 | ALEX LEARY and THOMAS C. TOBIN

Posted on 09/17/2005 2:30:08 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

ST. PETERSBURG - A girl, upset over a tetherball game, throws a tantrum during an afterschool program at Fairmount Park Elementary. She stomps on a table, tears things from the wall, pushes a television off a stand.

It's a strikingly familiar scene.

Six months ago, St. Petersburg police made international news by handcuffing a tempestuous Fairmount kindergartener as a video camera rolled.

Last week, police were called to the school again. This time, the officer stood and watched, waiting for the girl's father to arrive.

"He was totally powerless. What's he going to do? Grab her? Handcuff her?" Sgt. Phil Quandt, the officer's supervisor, said Friday. "It'll be like the 5-year-old all over again."

Quandt, also a union official, said new rules created in the outrage that followed the handcuffing have now left police afraid to act. "It needs to be vague enough where our officers, when faced with whatever threat, are able to adequately respond," he said.

The officer's hands-off approach to the Sept. 9 incident - which came to light on Friday - reflects a new policy not to use restraints unless the child is armed or considered violent. The officer acted properly, police spokesman Bill Proffitt said.

Quandt, however, thinks the officer should have felt free to prevent the girl from wrecking the room and perhaps hurting herself. But he understands the officer's reluctance.

The incident also raises fresh questions about who is responsible for the safety of children after class is over, exposing a gray area in the newly forged understanding between police and the school district.

The 8-year-old girl who acted up last week goes to Hamilton Disston School in Gulfport, for children who are severely emotionally disturbed or who have other disabilities such as speech or vision impairments. After school, she is bused to Fairmount for R'Club, a nonprofit learning program.

R'Club operates at Fairmount and more than two dozen other schools in Pinellas. Though it coordinates with the school district on curriculum, the program is independently run and financed.

The call to police last Friday came about 4:20 p.m. The girl got upset after playing tetherball, hit a boy, then kicked off her shoes and stormed out of school, said Art O'Hara, executive director of R'Club. A supervisor called St. Petersburg police, fearing for the girl's safety.

By the time Officer Michael Gattarello Jr. arrived, a club worker had coaxed the girl back to the school. When she saw the police car, O'Hara said, she got frightened and began terrorizing the room. About 60 other students were ushered outside.

The girl, O'Hara noted, was familiar with police since an officer returned her to school about three weeks ago after she ran away.

Gattarello, following the new guidelines, called a sergeant and asked that schools police be called to handle the situation. But those officers stop working at 4 p.m. on Fridays, as opposed to 10 p.m. on other weekdays.

"I continued to stand by while (the girl) tore up the area and awaited her parents' arrival," the officer wrote in a report.

With 19 officers to police the district's 50,000 elementary students, the school force is spread decidedly thin. Still, schools police Chief Tom Gavin said that is not a factor in Friday hours; rather, he said, there are no school programs at that time.

Since R'Club is an independent organization, would school police be responsible anyway?

"That's where the gray area is," said school district spokesman Ron Stone.

Superintendent Clayton Wilcox said his initial impression was that R'Club is responsible for handling such situations after school hours, but he added he wasn't sure about the details. He said the district is taking a look at its agreement with R'Club to see whether it covers this situation. He said he also wants to know more about the training level of R'Club employees.

When the district changed its procedures in the wake of the 5-year-old's handcuffing, a situation like this was not contemplated, Wilcox said. Under the change, district employees are not to call city police for a misbehaving child who is 9 years old or younger or who is in third grade or lower. The only exceptions are when safety is an issue, such as when a student has a weapon.

Police Chief Chuck Harmon was unavailable for comment Friday.

Wilcox said it could be argued that R'Club employees are agents of the district and subject to the same rules and procedures, but he did not know.

"This has given us a little pause," he said. "We're going to look at it real hard first thing Monday morning and see what we can learn.'

Noting that no one was hurt, he said of the incident, "I think it ended as well as it could have ended."

Alex Leary can be reached at 727 893-8472 or leary@sptimes.com


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: discipline; education; lawenforcement
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To: Amelia
Again..true about the hard science gap.

Yes the fault for this is a shared one.

I live in a place where there is a terrible shortage of competent teachers in these science fields....math in particular. A retired person and successful lady who worked as a mathmetician for a major corporation and was interested in helping out in the local middle school for no pay was told she didn't meet the teaching criteria....This lady has a masters degree in math from Princeton....The children are being taught by people with no formal education in math.....this isn't ebonics or social studies where education can be faked.

I don't see how America can put this humpty dumpty of a once great public school system together again. Humpty is broken....Hopefully someone can find a way.

81 posted on 09/17/2005 7:40:53 AM PDT by squirt-gun
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To: happinesswithoutpeace

It would be difficult to differentiate between the children and the judges?


82 posted on 09/17/2005 7:43:53 AM PDT by not_apathetic_anymore
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To: squirt-gun

In my state (Georgia), if you have a degree in a subject such as math or science but no educational credentials, you can be provisionally certified to teach, and there is a "shortcut" path to certification.

I know several people who've become teachers this way.


83 posted on 09/17/2005 7:47:38 AM PDT by Amelia (Common sense isn't particularly common.)
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To: Graybeard58
Isn't it wonderful how we remember those teachers who were not our favorites at the time, but whose tactics have really stuck with us for over half a century? I kid about Mrs. Link, but she is the one I remember! Along Carol Norton, Mrs. Newell, Mr. Shaughnessey and Mrs. Raulerson. It's hard to believe it's been over fifty years and I still remember those teachers! God bless 'em.
84 posted on 09/17/2005 7:55:53 AM PDT by jwpjr
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To: aumrl

There aren't any. It's a school for mentally or physically handicapped kids.


85 posted on 09/17/2005 8:35:46 AM PDT by From many - one.
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To: From many - one.; aumrl

Actually, the student attended a school for handicapped or mentally ill children, but the afterschool program appears to have been open to all.

That does suggest a pretty good question, actually. I'm not sure about Florida, but where I am, even emotionally disturbed students are served in the regular school environment unless their disability is so severe that they pose a danger to themselves or others.

Perhaps the little girl shouldn't have been in that program to begin with.


86 posted on 09/17/2005 8:47:37 AM PDT by Amelia (Common sense isn't particularly common.)
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To: Amelia
"...Perhaps the little girl shouldn't have been in that program to begin with...."

That's my thought.

87 posted on 09/17/2005 9:02:24 AM PDT by From many - one.
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

What's next? A drug-induced timeout since her parents and school officials can't or won't spank and use physical force to stop this kid of behavior? Or maybe an increased dose of Ritalin?


88 posted on 09/17/2005 9:49:22 AM PDT by Ol' Sparky
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To: Graybeard58

[I considered going because I figured that at 100 years old I could probably take her now.]


Now that's funny!


89 posted on 09/17/2005 11:40:21 AM PDT by spinestein (Forget the Golden Rule. Remember the Brazen Rule.)
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To: Graybeard58
[I believe that an adult should have picked up the girl wrapped their arms around her and sat her on his/her lap until Daddy arrived. Let her scream until then and from there on she's Daddy's problem. But what do I know, I am just an old Grampa, who has 4 adult children and 12 grand children.]



You know a LOT.

When I was about 12 years old, we went to a thanksgiving dinner at the relatives' house and one of the boys (about 9 years old) was being a monster, running around breaking things and harassing everyone else despite the feeble whining of her mother to get him to stop. The boy's dad didn't seem to notice.

At one point, the boy started to annoy my father (not a smart thing to try on a former army officer, and Vietnam veteran) I guess to see how far he could push this new guy, and my father just picked him up, then turned him around and put him face down on the couch and SAT ON HIM.

The kid got scared and started yelling and squirming, but my dad only laughed as if it were a game and got everyone else in the room to laugh along with it. The boy didn't know what to do because he knew he wasn't being hurt, or even made uncomfortable, only that he couldn't move and that everyone kept laughing as if it were some fun game. The boy's parents looked uncomfortable but didn't say anything, as I assume my dad knew they wouldn't.

After about 10 minutes, the kid stopped hollering and tried the "I'll be good, I promise" thing but my father wouldn't let him up until he could stay still and behave for about 10 more minutes. After he was finally allowed to get up, the boy acted like an angel for the rest of the day.

That lesson has stayed with me, and I've used that same technique on 3 other boys (two of them relatives, and one of them a neighbor) since then. I've noticed that after doing this, the kid really respects you for a long time, because he is shown that some adult is absolutely in charge and the kid is completely powerless.

I know that doing this with a stranger's child, or with children in your care as a teacher is not an option today, but I can't help but think we'd all be better off if it were.
90 posted on 09/17/2005 12:26:38 PM PDT by spinestein (Forget the Golden Rule. Remember the Brazen Rule.)
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To: Amelia

Most states provide exceptions from the mandatory attendance statutes for severe illness or handicaps. Most schools and states did not accept severely handicapped or mentally ill students until the courts forced them to do so.

There are a number of students for whom the school is essentially a very expensive day care system.
THANK YOU - I COULD NOT HAVE SAID IT NEARLY AS WELL!


91 posted on 09/17/2005 3:43:55 PM PDT by aumrl (DEWEY=our downfall)
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To: spinestein
Great story.

Parents who do not teach the limits of behavior to a young child are quite likely to someday have to identify the child's body in the morgue.

Human beings are born sinful and selfish and have to be TAUGHT, by loving parents, to behave properly. An undisciplined child will not naturally "swerve" toward the good.

A newborn is inherently focused on himself and must be taught he has a serious responsibility to adhere to family rules and to society's rules.

It is not LOVE to allow a child to maintain complete selfishness throughout childhood. This is a condemnation of a child to a horrible experience in relating to the world where the world will ultimately teach a harsh and perhaps fatal lesson to the undisciplined.

92 posted on 09/17/2005 11:38:43 PM PDT by NoControllingLegalAuthority
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To: Prime Choice
Kids act this way because they do not have good parents or they have one parent that is exceedingly well at being an A-hole.

The good thing is this child is now recognized as being a member of a family that should be closely scrutinized. If the family is neglectful then the child can be removed.... good. If the child has emotional or chemical imbalances... the kid can be helped.

The cops need to relax. Take the child to another room. Move the child to an office where there is nothing to break.
93 posted on 09/17/2005 11:43:54 PM PDT by Porterville (Liberal Babyboomers will by anything that stinks of hippy.... So crap on a stick and sell baby sell)
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To: NoControllingLegalAuthority

Excellent post, 100% correct, and well said.


94 posted on 09/17/2005 11:51:17 PM PDT by spinestein (Forget the Golden Rule. Remember the Brazen Rule.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Once again a child discipline story get mostly responses advocating spanking. Sorry, but you folks really lack imagination. Corporal punishment is the act of a frustrated adult. If you can't effectively discipline a child without inflicting pain, you just aren't trying very hard.


95 posted on 09/18/2005 6:58:35 PM PDT by Bellows
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