Anybody know what the vote was on Mike Brown's confirmation via the Senate? (Vanity)

None | September 7, 2005 | Me

[Chicos_Bail_Bonds]

Anybody know what the vote was on Mike Brown's confirmation via the Senate? I've been trying to find this out. I think this guy will be the fall guy but that's not really why I'm asking. A lot of my liberal "colleagues" are screaming about cronyism and my guess is that this guy was confirmed by the entire Senate or damn close.

Can't seem to find the information, however.

[infocats]

"During those 164 declared disasters with Brown in charge do you recall any complaints? I don't."

Success has a thousand fathers; failure is an orphan

This isn't a game of horseshoes...and close doesn't count. Brown may have had hundreds of successes...but failure must be paid for. That is the way the system works (or should work) for without that kind of feedback, nothing changes for the better.

"Did you know that he was a former assistant city manager with emergency services oversite?"

Corporate notches on a gun barrel can be misleading

That may mean as little as that he attended monthly board meeting to sign vouchers or....that he was more actively involved. I don't know, but certainly hope the latter.

[Chicos_Bail_Bonds]

Looks like Lieberman made some comments about Brown during the confirmation process. Per MSNBC.

---

Here is the msnbc quote:


But the dim view of Brown's qualifications by senators seems to have emerged only in hindsight. Members of both parties seemed little troubled by his background at 2002 Senate hearings that led to his confirmation as deputy FEMA chief.

Indeed, Democratic Sen. Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut, who led those hearings, called Brown's long-ago stint as assistant city manager in Edmond, Okla., a "particularly useful experience" because he had responsibility for local emergency services.

[PhilipFreneau]

>> Brown may have had hundreds of successes...but failure must be paid for.

What failures are you referring to? Please be specific. Generalizations are for generals.

[infocats]

"What failures are you referring to? Please be specific."

I'm too lazy to search for the thread in which I posted what I thought were FEMA failures and so I will try, to the extent my memory will allow, to reconstruct them.

I thought FEMA dropped the ball because of Brown's lack of experience in direct disaster management and avoidance.

They knew (or should have known) the lack of Louisianana's state of emergency preparedness because:

They know (or should have known) the corruption of Louisiana government which is legendary. I love New Orleans, love its history, architecture, hospitality, and damn the torpedoes attitude (and I allow the possibility that only governmental corruption could facilitate this) but was obviously dysfunctional in emergency situations.

They know (or should have known)the state of emergency stocks because their computers can (or should) communicate with the local databases listing those supplies (which probably came from FEMA in the first instance).

They know (or should have known) that accurate and timely communication (either didrectly or indirectly) with the public as to what the problem is or isn't and how they are going about addressing it.

All of the above resulted in what I believe were unnecessary delays of perhaps several days...when mere hours can be crucial.

[WHBates]

I don't know much about him or how he got into his current position. But I really don't think it matters because his department has not been the problem and his track record since he's been in the job has been great.

But does it doesn't really matter because they are looking for someone other than locals (or Congress) to blame.

This is on both sides of the political divide BTW. Because they don't want people looking into how all of this money is being spent and how is "my city/county" going to deal with a similar situation. We send a SPF of money to both the Feds and Locals.

[PhilipFreneau]

>>"I thought FEMA dropped the ball because of Brown's lack of experience in direct disaster management and avoidance."<<<

You don't consider the management of 164 previous federal disasters as experience? Man, you are tough!

>>"They knew (or should have known) the lack of Louisianana's state of emergency preparedness"<<

This is one point where I have to agree with you. The FEMA SOP Manual should have on the first page, "No city or state with democratic leadership shall be considered capable of handling anything remotely related to disaster management. The issuance of elaborate, well-designed plans by a democrat official shall in no way alter this judgement."

>>"They know (or should have known)the state of emergency stocks because their computers can (or should) communicate with the local databases listing those supplies (which probably came from FEMA in the first instance). "<<

I don't have a clue what you are talking about...

>>"They know (or should have known) that accurate and timely communication (either didrectly or indirectly) with the public as to what the problem is or isn't and how they are going about addressing it. "<<<

I felt pretty well informed, myself, and I have no direct communication with the federal government whatsoever. As a former military medical staff member, I would have expected FEMA to establish a triage system to evacuate those in the most danger, first. That is exactly what FEMA did. A consequence of all helicopters being tied-up in the evacuation was the routine air drops of food were delayed. That was no big deal in the scope of things. It was only a big deal to those who were seeking ways to bash the President, and, of course, it was a big deal to those too naive to understand that the Main Stream Media is treacherously deceitful.

I have wondered how others might handle disaster relief for 90,000 square miles of damaged or devastated real estate. But in the meantime I will place my faith in Brown.

[infocats]

"It was only a big deal to those who were seeking ways to bash the President"

I have no dog in this race...and no hidden agenda. I'm a strong Bush supporter in so far as most foreign policy issues go, and wish him and his administration well. That having been said, the evidence strongly suggest that there was some fundamental disconnect between first responsders at the local and state level, and the fed. I think it is precisely FEMA's job to identify those disconnects and fix them before the fact, not after. I don't believe Brown was aware enough, quick enough, paranoid enough, and prescient enough to do the job; this can only come with trial by fire, by experience, in which I believe Brown was clearly deficient. If we're lucky, using him as the proverbial sacrificial lamb can contain the political damage. If not, it will just go on and on to be used by the anti-Americans amongst us for futurre electoral gains.

[lstanle]

"The system demands a fall guy...and a fall guy the system shall have."

I nominate the Governor of LA and the Mayor of NO.

[PhilipFreneau]

>>> " . . . the evidence strongly suggest that there was some fundamental disconnect between first responsders at the local and state level, and the fed." <<<

Of course there was. In fact, there appears to be some sort of turf war between the real incompetent in the matter (Gov Blanco) and the feds.

>>>"I think it is precisely FEMA's job to identify those disconnects and fix them before the fact, not after. <<<

Now I understand. One of the job requirements for FEMA is, "Must be clairvoyant", and Bush ignored it.

>>"I don't believe Brown was aware enough, quick enough, paranoid enough, and prescient enough to do the job"<<

I agree he does not appear to be paranoid. Level-headed is a more appropriate description.

>>"This can only come with trial by fire, by experience, in which I believe Brown was clearly deficient."<<

So is everyone else on this planet. Brown's "weak" experience includes management of the Western wildfires of 2004, two minor hurricanes (Frances and Jeanne which hit the Fort Pierce area), and two major hurricanes (Ivan which hit Pensacola, and Charley which hit Punta Gorda). No offense, but that appears to be a hell of a lot of experience in disaster relief.

>> "If we're lucky, using him as the proverbial sacrificial lamb can contain the political damage. If not, it will just go on and on to be used by the anti-Americans amongst us for futurre electoral gains." <<

Are you pushing for an interview with the MSM? I can hear it now...

"At this time we welcome a member of Free Republic who believes that Brown should be fired from his position at FEMA". You could become the next Hagel.

[infocats]

"I nominate the Governor of LA and the Mayor of NO."

Yeah, them too...but that's up to the voters of Louisiana.

[infocats]

"Now I understand. One of the job requirements for FEMA is, "Must be clairvoyant"

Oh come on...this isn't sandlot baseball...this is the big leagues. Anyone who's been in the political game for awhile knew (or should have known) the incompetence and or corruption of local governments right up to the state level in Louisiana. They should have acted upon that information before, as opposed to after, the fact. I am not blaming President Bush as many have, other than to say that he has to bear some responsibility since Mike Brown was his appointee and this is an inevitable consequence of unenlightened cronyisim.

[infocats]

"Are you pushing for an interview with the MSM? I can hear it now..."

Ah, another member of the "shoot the messenger bearing bad tidings" school of thought...or perhaps an administration spin doctor would fit the bill. In either event, attacking me does not address the problem at hand.

Our president has been getting a lot of bad advice lately IMHO (and in Mike Savage's also) which deeply disturbs me. From his mishandling of the Cindy Sheehan situation, to his paralysis on the illegal immigrant issue, to his appointment of less than stellar cronies (Mike Brown), I think he's in the process of being set up and I don't like it, nor should you.

[untrained skeptic]

FEMA made sure they developed emergency and evacuation plans. Those were in place. The local governments simply didn't execute those plans with anything resembling competence.

FEMA can provide some oversight when federal grants are being given, but their power is very limited.

The local government simply took very few steps to protect their citizens despite ample warning. They are either unbelievably incompetent, or simply didn't care.

[untrained skeptic]

"While I agree with most of your post, I take exception to the above. I think the point is, it is FEMA's job to know these things before the fact, not after."

No it absolutely is not. FEMA's job is to step in and help when disasters are too large for the local and state government to handle. Their job is to provide coordination among the states and the federal government to get aid where it is needed.

The do need to know what resources are where to do their jobs. However, it's not their job to go and inspect every disaster shelter in the country and see that the local governments did what they said they would do in their plans.

That is not and should not be the federal government's responsibility.

"Are you suggesting that FEMA doesn't have computers that can query the inventory databases of these localities, especially when these supplies were probably furnished by the fed in the first instance?"

I'm suggesting that the FEDs made a reasonable assumption that New Orleans would provide the supplies that their disaster plan required, or ask for help immediately when they didn't have them.

They are there to coordinate, not to dictate. The law is very clear that the state and local governments are in charge.

"If I have any criticisim of Mike Brown, it is that he was not paranoid enough, not forward thinking enough, in his administration of FEMA...and why should he be?"

Because he has had experience with many other state and local governments. There weren't these problems in Florida after the hurricanes last year. Katrina hit a lot more area of the country than Lousiana, but problems of this magnitude didn't happen elsewhere.

The unpreparedness of New Orleans was the exception, not the rule, and people died because the local government didn't live up to even a minimum standard of their responsibilities.

"His background, his experience just didn't prepare him for the complexities of this type of job...but I can't even blame him. I think the real blame falls on the people who appointed him, and the people who confirmed him."

His background is running FEMA successfully and well through a number of huge disasters in the last few years. He has tremendous experience with dealing with disasters of this type, and it's recent experience. I find it hard to believe there are many people more qualified in the country right now.

The BS about him not having experience should be obviously false. He didn't just get appointed the day before the storm hit, and he's been working in FEMA in some capacity for a long time now.

[infocats]

[infocats] - I'm pissed. I tried to respond to your post twice but accidentally delted it both times. This time I've wised up and am composing it first in Notepad...so here goes.

[infocats] - "While I agree with most of your post, I take exception to the above. I think the point is, it is FEMA's job to know these things before the fact, not after."

[untrained skeptic] - No it absolutely is not. FEMA's job is to step in and help when disasters are too large for the local and state government to handle. Their job is to provide coordination among the states and the federal government to get aid where it is needed.

They do need to know what resources are where to do their jobs. However, it's not their job to go and inspect every disaster shelter in the country and see that the local governments did what they said they would do in their plans.

That is not and should not be the federal government's responsibility.

[infocats] - That is essentially the difference between a proactive and a reactive approach to reality. If I suggested to you that Homeland Security should wait for a CBN (hmmm...NBC) attack before preparing their plans, would you buy that. Of course not. It is precisely FEMA's job to know the weaknesses in the sytem (including local corruption and incompetence) before the fact, not after, in order to properly assess risk as but one factor in their action plan. If not the fed, then who?

[infocats] - "Are you suggesting that FEMA doesn't have computers that can query the inventory databases of these localities, especially when these supplies were probably furnished by the fed in the first instance?"

[untrained skeptic] -I'm suggesting that the FEDs made a reasonable assumption that New Orleans would provide the supplies that their disaster plan required, or ask for help immediately when they didn't have them.

[infocats] - Very rarely should reasonable assumption be relied upon. It is a fool's tool. It is FEMA's job to know, not guess, not assume, what the hell was going on down there before disaster struck. This problem didn't just drop out of the blue. The vulnerabilities of the area from hurricanes have been known and studied for decades, not based upon assumption, but upon sound engineering fundamentals. It was FEMA's job to know, it was Mike Brown's job to know, and their saying that they did not is akin to Ken Lay (an economist and CEO of Enron) saying he did not know about the accounting fraud going on at his company. I am getting a bit sick and tired of these empty suits collecting the big bucks for doing a job, and then coming up with endless excuses as to why they couldn't, wouldn't, or shouldn't.

[untrained skeptic] - They are there to coordinate, not to dictate. The law is very clear that the state and local governments are in charge.

[infocats] - FEMA has the authority under almost endless executive orders to charge into the breach and do virtually anything they deem appropriate to restore law, order, and functionality to any area struck by sudden disaster.

[infocats] - "If I have any criticisim of Mike Brown, it is that he was not paranoid enough, not forward thinking enough, in his administration of FEMA...and why should he be?"

[untrained skeptic] - Because he has had experience with many other state and local governments. There weren't these problems in Florida after the hurricanes last year. Katrina hit a lot more area of the country than Lousiana, but problems of this magnitude didn't happen elsewhere.

[infocats] - If you've had any experience in serving on either a corporate or governmental board of directors, you would know that many, but certainly not all, of these gun handle notches (resumés) can be very misleading. There is no implication in any of Brown's job titles that he had field experience. He may only have shown up at monthy board meetings to sign expense vouchers. The job really calls for a roll up your shirtsleeves type with experience at the street level. I would really have to dig up the minutes, or better yet the transcripts, of all of those meeting (which I guarantee I will not do) to ascertain exactly who did what to whom.

[untrained skeptic] - The unpreparedness of New Orleans was the exception, not the rule, and people died because the local government didn't live up to even a minimum standard of their responsibilities.

[infocats] - Isn't that the purpose of FEMA (or the C.I.A. or Homeland Security) to expect the unexpected and prepare for it by performing countless "what if" scenarios? That is, in part, why these organizations exist.

[infocats] - "His background, his experience just didn't prepare him for the complexities of this type of job...but I can't even blame him. I think the real blame falls on the people who appointed him, and the people who confirmed him."

[untrained skeptic] - His background is running FEMA successfully and well through a number of huge disasters in the last few years. He has tremendous experience with dealing with disasters of this type, and it's recent experience. I find it hard to believe there are many people more qualified in the country right now.

The BS about him not having experience should be obviously false. He didn't just get appointed the day before the storm hit, and he's been working in FEMA in some capacity for a long time now.

[infocats] - Again, I don't know the exact level of his expertise...but from FEMA's delayed response, I suspect that he had little to no training at the street level, and was merely another empty suit political crony hackmeister. If it turns out I am wrong, I will be the first to offer my humble apologies to you, Mike Brown, and anyone else gracious enough to accept them.

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>Oh come on...this isn't sandlot baseball...this is the big leagues. Anyone who's been in the political game for awhile knew (or should have known) the incompetence and or corruption of local governments right up to the state level in Louisiana.<<<

I have a feeling you would be complaining just as loudly if FEMA had overstepped its authority and wrested control from the boobs in Louisiana. I can hear it now, "MIKE BROWN IS A TYRANT!"

>>> I am not blaming President Bush as many have, other than to say that he has to bear some responsibility since Mike Brown was his appointee and this is an inevitable consequence of unenlightened cronyisim.<<<

Cronyism? Please explain. Spare no details.

[PhilipFreneau]

>>>Our president has been getting a lot of bad advice lately IMHO (and in Mike Savage's also) which deeply disturbs me. From his mishandling of the Cindy Sheehan situation, to his paralysis on the illegal immigrant issue, to his appointment of less than stellar cronies (Mike Brown), I think he's in the process of being set up and I don't like it, nor should you. <<<

The claim that Mike Brown is a crony is a myth created by left-wing propagandists to smear the Bush administration. But maybe I am wrong. Perhaps you can enlighten with something other than innuendo, which to date is all you have provided.

[infocats]

[PhilipFreneau] - I have a feeling you would be complaining just as loudly if FEMA had overstepped its authority and wrested control from the boobs in Louisiana. I can hear it now, "MIKE BROWN IS A TYRANT!"

[infocats] - And you would probably be correct...if they overstepped their authority. I believe, however, that taking a quicker more pro-active position would have been well within their authority. I also believe that they are now doing a credible job.

[infocats] - I am not blaming President Bush as many have, other than to say that he has to bear some responsibility since Mike Brown was his appointee and this is an inevitable consequence of unenlightened cronyisim.

[PhilipFreneau] - Cronyism? Please explain. Spare no details.

[infocats] - This was covered in another FR Thread in a report by the NY Daily News.

[untrained skeptic]

"[infocats] - That is essentially the difference between a proactive and a reactive approach to reality. If I suggested to you that Homeland Security should wait for a CBN (hmmm...NBC) attack before preparing their plans, would you buy that. Of course not. It is precisely FEMA's job to know the weaknesses in the sytem (including local corruption and incompetence) before the fact, not after, in order to properly assess risk as but one factor in their action plan. If not the fed, then who?"

No it's not being reactive to make sure plans are formulated and duties are assigned. While some drinking water should be stored on site and some food as well at all times, there is food and water in the community and it's up to the local government to gather those resources at the shelters. They simply didn't do that.

This wasn't a matter of the resources not being available locally. They had plenty of advanced warning to gather them. They simply didn't do it.

It's not the federal government's job to play nanny and make sure the state and local governments are doing their jobs. If any higher government had a responsibility or the authority to make sure New Orleans was prepared it was the state government. The federal government doesn't have the authority to interfere at that level. We live in a Republic!

"[infocats] - Very rarely should reasonable assumption be relied upon. It is a fool's tool. It is FEMA's job to know, not guess, not assume, what the hell was going on down there before disaster struck. This problem didn't just drop out of the blue. The vulnerabilities of the area from hurricanes have been known and studied for decades, not based upon assumption, but upon sound engineering fundamentals."

Yes, and the federal government did a tremendous amount to help the area prepare. The federal government provided hundreds of millions of dollars for building and repairing the levee around NO, but the state and local government would not spend the rest of the money needed to upgrade it to handle this kind of storm.

NO received grants to help them prepare disaster plans and to help them get some of the equipment they needed, but the local government did not carry out those plans and much of the equipment was left unused because so few people did their jobs locally.

There may very well be truth to the accusations that so many of the people who suffered from this hurricane were left to suffer because they were poor, but it wasn't the federal government that did it.

"It was FEMA's job to know, it was Mike Brown's job to know, and their saying that they did not is akin to Ken Lay (an economist and CEO of Enron) saying he did not know about the accounting fraud going on at his company."

The local governments in this country do not report to FEMA, and FEMA has no authority to make them do anything. At best FEMA can threaten not to give them any more grants, but those grants are likely stipulated in legislation and FEMA can only do so much to make sure they are used well.

FEMA is not an agency with greater authority than the state and local governments. The work to assist and coordinate the state and local government's efforts, but only at the request of the state and local governments.

"I am getting a bit sick and tired of these empty suits collecting the big bucks for doing a job, and then coming up with endless excuses as to why they couldn't, wouldn't, or shouldn't."

Then complain about the ones that weren't doing their jobs, rather than helping them deflect blame towards those who were doing their jobs. FEMA doesn't have the authority you seem to think they have, nor should they under our form of government.

"[infocats] - FEMA has the authority under almost endless executive orders to charge into the breach and do virtually anything they deem appropriate to restore law, order, and functionality to any area struck by sudden disaster."

Those Executive orders were likely unconstitutional, and I believe they have all been repealed by subsequent presidents that weren't trying to make the federal government a dictatorship.

The laws say that FEMA responds to requests for help from the States, not that they charge in and take control.

After all, if you were in Mississippi, would you like the federal government coming in and taking the resources you prepared for a disaster and now need, and sending them to Louisiana because they weren't prepared?

There was a huge area that needed help, and the places that were prepared got help sooner because resources didn't have to be brought as far.

"[infocats] - If you've had any experience in serving on either a corporate or governmental board of directors, you would know that many, but certainly not all, of these gun handle notches (resumés) can be very misleading. There is no implication in any of Brown's job titles that he had field experience."

Look at the news footage from the hurricanes in Florida last year. He was on the scene working unbelievable numbers of hours to get people the help they needed. I don't care about his "resume". It's the people criticizing him that are saying his "resume" is too weak. If his resume can be misleading, why are you siding with the people that are using it to criticize him, when there's ample evidence of him actually doing a good job at handling similar disasters in the past?

"[infocats] - Isn't that the purpose of FEMA (or the C.I.A. or Homeland Security) to expect the unexpected and prepare for it by performing countless "what if" scenarios? That is, in part, why these organizations exist."

Yep, but you can't plan for every unexpected circumstance. You also can plan for some failures in the local government preparedness, but in the end it requires pulling resources from elsewhere, and that takes time.

"[infocats] - Again, I don't know the exact level of his expertise...but from FEMA's delayed response, I suspect that he had little to no training at the street level, and was merely another empty suit political crony hackmeister."

What delayed response? FEMA was there before the hurricane hit and was helping to the extent that their help was requested and permitted by the state and local governments.

They went to work to the extent they could immediately. There was not delay on their part.

They also did bring along food and resources, and they put those to use. They didn't have enough to keep all the people at the shelters well fed, but I didn't hear about tens of thousands dieing of thirst.

They obviously started getting resources moved into the area as quickly as they could. However a huge area was devastated and resources had to be spread out over that area. The areas that did the worst job preparing suffered the worst for it.

The real thing that slowed things down was not getting enough national guard in place quickly enough. FEMA does not have authority over the national guard. The governor failed to call them up in sufficient numbers quickly and failed to request the national guard from other states quickly.

The federal government can't just order the national guard to Louisiana and take over. Dictatorships do that, not Republics.

FEMA did an incredible job in getting relief to people despite the failings of others. Their people worked around the clock. They made tremendous personal sacrifices to help people. They charged in to help people in need, unlike the considerable number of New Orleas police that went running the other way.

They are the heroes, and they are being slandered by the politicians who are the villains.

Their only failure is to be unable to overcome the incompetence of the governor and local authorities over which they have no authority.

We need to hold the people accountable the did not do their jobs. However, blaming the people who did their jobs well because they couldn't overcome the failings of others is disgraceful.

[infocats]

I'm not ignoring your post #119. It will just have to wait until later because I've got to get some other work done ;-(