Posted on 09/05/2005 7:32:04 PM PDT by Jacob Kell
The American Atheists organization says President Bush should stop urging prayer for Hurricane Katrina victims because it violates the Constitution.
Ellen Johnson, president of the group said Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco and Bush "should not be violating the Constitution by telling people to pray for the victims of Hurricane Katrina. It's unconstitutional for government officials to be promoting religion; and besides, judging from the speed of some relief efforts, officials should be busy working instead of preaching."
(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...
I've a simple question - you can offer a simple answer if you wish. I presume, by your SN, you consider yourself a "reverend"; or does that "REV" stand for "reverse"?. If "REVEREND" - by that, I presume a prerequisite obedience to the Holy Scripture. Is it not safe to conclude your allegiance ought belong first to Christ - if your claim is Christianity - then to the Constitution?
Help me out here, because I'm trying to discern your depth of allegiance since the defense of prayer seems backseat to you.
Or are you merely playing the Devil's Advocate for the sake of discussion?
My questioning comes down to this: How can a "reverend", with clear conscience, not be an advocate for prayer?
In this case it's Christian. I didn't say it was to the wind or nature or Allah and neither has George Bush. Bravo for him.
To The American Atheists organization:
Shut Up.
It's Christian organizations providing an extensive bit of the bulk of donations, charitable donations, counseling and shelters.
Do something productive in your life instead of whining about prayer to a being you don't believe even exists.
The civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability, and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the State (Letter to Robert Walsh, Mar. 2, 1819).
Strongly guarded as is the separation between religion and & Gov't in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history (Detached Memoranda, circa 1820).
Every new and successful example, therefore, of a perfect separation between the ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance; and I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed together (Letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822).
I must admit moreover that it may not be easy, in every possible case, to trace the line of separation between the rights of religion and the civil authority with such distinctness as to avoid collisions and doubts on unessential points. The tendency to a usurpation on one side or the other or to a corrupting coalition or alliance between them will be best guarded against by entire abstinence of the government from interference in any way whatever, beyond the necessity of preserving public order and protecting each sect against trespasses on its legal rights by others. (Letter Rev. Jasper Adams, Spring 1832).
Also, St. Paul called some people some un-nice things when they resisted Jesus Christ. "Dogs" is just one of them. Woof, woof, woof????
Ok, I retract my statement about it being a prayer to whomever. I know Bush means God (NOT allah) and I am wholeheartedly fine with that, and everyone who is not can choose not to. That's what is so great about this country. President says to pray and you don't want to, DON'T.
As for your first statement, it is one of those little "contradictions" that atheists think they have suddenly found that invalidates the Bible. Why pray for something if, in God's omniscient eyes, it's already happened? Well, because God wants a personal relationship with humans.
What the President said about prayer will not hurt anyone or move this country to a "slippery theocratic slope." There is so much thin skin in this country that it makes me sick.
Its his right as a US citizen. Im confused as to why you think he said it as a federal mandate in some way.
Would you object to a co-employee offering their prayers to you if your dad was having open heart surgery? Did they offer the prayers as an employee of your company or personally? Would you ask them kindly to refrain from the offering as it is not their assigned duties at said company?
Well not me. His prayer isn't open. We know he's a Christian, and I'm not going to pretend I don't understand the source of his strength is Jesus Christ.
Your objection has been noted. You'll find Americans in an overwhelming majority will be as supportive of it as they were removing God from the Pledge. Guess you'll just have to live with it and "pray" we have a President that isn't humble enough to ask for help from someone Greater than Himself and ask Americans to do the same voluntarily as moved.
For the same reason the Old Testament kings were not to perform the functions of the priest.
There are separate spheres for Church and State - the prohibition of the establishment of religion protects religion from the State. The compulsive and coercive power of the State is not something I want to see yoked to religion - I take that stand on both religious and ideological principle.
Plenty of Christians today and in the past have taken precisely the same position. The debate and the struggle over how it works itself out is as old as our Republic.
What does that have to do with President Bush asking his fellow citizens to pray on behalf of the victims of Hurricane Katrina?
Anyone else hear music playing while on this thread? I have no players on and music started coming out of my speakers 4 times, the last 2 times with words. Clouds roll in from the north and stars something or another were in the words. It keeps coming in on its own.
The bugbear of that day was of temporal government meddling in church government. Almost nobody talking like this took it the other way, the way of keeping public office sterile of a general Christianity. That was an innovation which awaited the FDR-packed courts of the mid 20th century.
Something about the streets of Angeline.
Given the chance, I'd ask Ms. Johnson if she had a problem reading and comprehending the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment. Actually, I'd prefer to tell her to get buggered, but I think the other thing would serve the purpose just as well.
Some can't see, or hear.
Also Bush should completely stop all of the churches and religious charaties from helping, give all the money back, and you know what... I think we have to have Senate hearings on how they were ever allowed to get this far in the first place. /moonbat-hat
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...
Congress is expressly prohibited from creating laws that endorse (i.e. respect) a particular religion.
You're just flat out wrong. Respecting does NOT mean endorsing. It means "with regard to". Congress is forbidden from passing legislation that establishes a religion. Or one that prohibits the free exercise of religion.
You do know that one of the first Acts of the very first Congress was to print a large number of Bibles, don't you? If the First Amendment meant that Congress was not to endorse religion, hwo do you suppose they got away with that one so near the time of the writing of the Constitution?
But don't let the facts get in the way of your fantasy life, bucko. Sheesh.
If they keep getting their way soon America will not recognize God and they will have their way. Without God's protection we are open to vast calamity. To the extent we have left Him we have been judged. The plain truth is that we need His protection. Without it we are doomed.
Er, you DO know this is a Conservative site, right?
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