Posted on 09/03/2005 6:36:23 PM PDT by A. Pole
Efforts to drain New Orleans hit another snag Friday as the Army Corps of Engineers discovered that it could not buy new pumps to replace those damaged by the flooding.
Massive pumps capable of draining the city like those that have been keeping New Orleans dry for decades are no longer made and would have to be specially ordered, a process that would take too long, said Col. Richard Wagenaar, the senior corps official in New Orleans.
Instead, repair crews will have to dry out the existing pumps, which could take up to a week, before repairing them with replacement motors and parts and begin pumping water back into Lake Pontchartrain. The repair job could prolong efforts to drain the city, about 80% of which is submerged.
"These pumps are so big, you can't buy them off the shelf. You have to make them, and we don't have time for that," said Wagenaar, who spent about an hour Friday escorting President Bush around the levee damage at the 17th Street Canal.
The city, much of which is below sea level, relies on a network of 22 pumps to keep water out. Army engineers now believe eight pumps are underwater.
The latest wrinkle illustrated the enormous complexity of draining the city, which for more than 200 years had gradually built up an elaborate system to keep itself dry.
Even with the setback, Wagenaar said, the city could be drained in three to six months, mainly because engineers may finally be able to get to the largest pump station, at the end of the 17th Street Canal, as early as today.
[...]
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
Pumping water is not always an exact science. The idea the fire trucks could pump it dry is pretty unbelievable.
Check out this web site. I think you may be too reactionary to see the forest for the trees. Although the US may not make the exact pump that was installed years ago in NO there are other companies that make pumps that are highly value added products like this one. http://www.lawrencepumps.com/ .
The number I used for sq miles was considering the entire city
that means all outlying areas are not covered
Also, I used 5 feet deep water for the volume calculation. It is higher some places and lower some places, so, I used it as an average.
But bear with me. Put a unit or two like these self powered pumps on bridge pontoons, barges, etc. Throw up a coffer dam around the pump station, (after you float the barge in, or park the barge next to the dam).
Use these to pump out the pump stations to get them dry and repair the big pumps.
Re route electrical power as needed, the strip mining industry runs huge cables out to draglines from power plants, along the ground...
Then pump the place out. Wish for more wishes.
Large AC drives have better speed control than mechanical drives, like a diesel motor, for instance.
How many of those pumps are actually available?
Use oilfield light plants (rig generators), if they have enough capacity. They are already skid mounted and can be hauled on trucks, and are diesel powered. There are SCR units as well, if you need DC.
That's still 8500 days at 24/7 pumping. Not taking into account breakdowns.
Why are you so fixated on "fire trucks"?? And yes, you CAN "purchase 1000 pumps off the shelf". The Corps of Engineers operation I saw in action didn't have any trouble scrounging up 100 pumps of the appropriate size just in the local area. I doubt seriously that they would have trouble coming up with 10X that.
As to your "calculations", it depends on your definition of what "New Orleans" is---the entire metro area, just Orleans Parish, or what. Remember, despite all the news media, even the area of New Orleans that is inside the levees between the levee breaks is not ALL flooded--I have serious doubts about your "4190 sq. miles".
Good point... small as a bucket may be, there are plenty of warm bodies available and it might actually improve the attitude I've seen coming from many of them if they were to learn to actually DO something productive for once in their lives.
Along this line... I've been especially stunned to hear the Red Cross and others begging for volunteers to help with the relief effort. Money, food, supplies, blankets, clothing, etc.. I understand completely. But with the size of this evacuation, why on earth would they need more warm bodies to help? What the heck are these evacuees doing anyway? Are they ALL just shiftless, lazy parasites unable to help serve food or organize or help take care of their own fellow citizens?
Sorry, but this absolutely pisses me off. Other than a very few special skill sets necessary, there is absolutely no need for more warm bodies to come into an area where we have thousands to evacutate.
"According to the United States Census Bureau, the city has a total area of 907.0 km² (350.2 mi²). 467.6 km² (180.6 mi²) of it is land and 439.4 km² (169.7 mi²) of it is water. The total area is 48.45% water."
This is JUST A BIT smaller than "4197 square miles".
I presume that some Chinese, Japanese and Korean engineering firms are already flying in with plans for how these can be built and delivered by next Thursday. This used to be called Yankee inenuity.
Census Data......New Orleans......Orleans County
Population........484,120.............484,120
Area in square miles..205.........205
Got this from another site, I wonder where the OTHER site got their numbers!
Ok, NOW, YOU run the numbers on volume of water!
Yeah. If the pumps were located above sea level, then you'd still need other massive pumps below the water level just to prime the higher pumps. That's not a very sensible way to build plumbing.
Using the new rate of 17,000 GPM and 205 square miles of the city, the rate for ONE pump is...
205 sq miles = [(5280 x 12in)(5280 x 12in)= one square mile in inches]= 4,014,489,600 sq inches x 205 mi = 822,970,368,000 sq inches
x 6 feet of water = (6 x 12 in) x (822,970,368,000) = 59,253,866,496,000 cu inches minimum of water to be drained
1 gal = 231 cu in x 17000 = 3,927,000 cu in of water a minute that can be drained using your numbers using your pumps
59,253,866,496,000 cu in of water existing / 3,927,000 cu in of water that can be drained using your pumps = 15,088,838 minutes to drain that volume
251,481 hours
4192 days!!
The New Orleans metropolitan REGION covers 8,800 sq km (3,400 sq mi), and includes the counties—known in Louisiana as parishes—of Orleans, Jefferson, Saint Bernard, Saint Charles, Saint John the Baptist, Saint Tammany, Saint James, and Plaquemines. At the center is the city of New Orleans (coextensive with Orleans Parish), with a land area of 468 sq km (181 sq mi).
And not all of that 181 square miles is currently flooded.
Actually, it would quadruple my most recent set of numbers! :)
I don't know, someone would have to query the manufacturer.
Using them to dry out the big pump stations so those could be worked on would vastly reduce the number needed--as opposed to trying ot pump out the entire town.
I would think any manufacturer would want to get in on this, for the advertising potential, if nothing else.
Hey, at least you are working on it!
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