Replacement Pumps Don't Exist

Los Angeles Times ^ | September 3, 2005 | Peter Pae

[A. Pole]

Efforts to drain New Orleans hit another snag Friday as the Army Corps of Engineers discovered that it could not buy new pumps to replace those damaged by the flooding.

Massive pumps capable of draining the city like those that have been keeping New Orleans dry for decades are no longer made and would have to be specially ordered, a process that would take too long, said Col. Richard Wagenaar, the senior corps official in New Orleans.

Instead, repair crews will have to dry out the existing pumps, which could take up to a week, before repairing them with replacement motors and parts and begin pumping water back into Lake Pontchartrain. The repair job could prolong efforts to drain the city, about 80% of which is submerged.

"These pumps are so big, you can't buy them off the shelf. You have to make them, and we don't have time for that," said Wagenaar, who spent about an hour Friday escorting President Bush around the levee damage at the 17th Street Canal.

The city, much of which is below sea level, relies on a network of 22 pumps to keep water out. Army engineers now believe eight pumps are underwater.

The latest wrinkle illustrated the enormous complexity of draining the city, which for more than 200 years had gradually built up an elaborate system to keep itself dry.

Even with the setback, Wagenaar said, the city could be drained in three to six months, mainly because engineers may finally be able to get to the largest pump station, at the end of the 17th Street Canal, as early as today.

[...]

[John Jamieson]

2 feet a day would be wonderful. Hope you're right.

[hlmencken3]

They'd love to get the contract, but I doubt they have any waiting to ship!

[Nov3]

We aren't talking a few acre-ft of water here. The amount of water is huge.

[savedbygrace]

Are you suggesting no replacement parts could have been manufactured and stored for emergencies, the pumps being so vital to keeping parts of NO from flooding?

[bboop]

There ARE lots of solutions here. Honestly, either we CAN do something or we can whine. There are really no other options. I thot Americans were resourceful in an pinch? What a bunch of ............................. they are(oh nevermind).

[supercat]

Well there are several solutions to this problem. First every fire truck has pumping abilities. All they need is a drafting nozzle and regular hose to send the water over the wall into the lake.

You could just as well equip a bunch of people with eyedroppers. If you build a cofferdam around a small area, a firetruck pump might be useful for evacuating it. This could be a good approach for getting at presently-submerged pumps to repare them. But a week of pumping by a firetruck probably wouldn't equal an hour's worth of pumping by one of the monster pumps.

[metmom]

Hey. I just thought... where are they going to pump all this polluted, sewage laden water anyway? I thought water has to be treated if it's discharge of any kind. You going to pollute the Gulf with it or Lake Ponch?

[Gillmeister]

bump

That damn Bush, he did'nt have any backups in the Rose Garden?

[RaceBannon]

For the volume of water to be moved, with the head pressure needed to raise the water high enough to go over the sea wall or back into lake ponchatrain, there arent enough fire trucks or portable pumps in the US right now to move that much water in less than 6 to 8 months

[timestax]

I heard that a witness who lives nearby said that he saw a barge hit the levee? Did anyone hear or see that? 7 posted on 09/03/2005 9:36:30 PM EDT by roses of sharon

Yeah, and this might happen again.

[sine_nomine]

Submarines have plenty of power generation. From what they say, one could cruise down Canal Street now.

[John Jamieson]

Might work great for local areas, like to work on the big pumps.

[TaMoDee]

I truly don't believe it's the pumps ie: the water handling piece of equipment, but the electric motors that power the pumps. I saw pre-Katrina pics of the complex of pumps and motors that move the water. I said to myself: That stuff is really old. I contacted a friend who's family goes back quite a long time in NOLA. He told me that his grandfather in 1900 went to Holland to view their system. He came back and designed the current system.
I was the engineer at a major facility when one of our 1937 pumps wore out. We had the drawing numbers. We called the foundry that cast pump housing and built the pump. They said "No Problem" 26 days later we had our new pump.
We also had a problem with water flooding a water pump house. We pulled the very large elec motor sent it off to be baked, etc. 8 days back on line.
The electic motors are more probably the problem. Big goode olde open winding motors like that in the NOLA system are history. OK, if major happens but if it does---
I've seen very old motors properly maintained last quite a while.
You just don't move in diesel engines and hook them up.
Must be set and mated to the pumps.

We're talking PUMPS here, Boy! Really big PUMPS, Boy!

I hope this info helps a little on understanding the pump problems.

I could add more about clogged intakes, sand wear in the pump housing and on the turbine propellers. That was Civil
328 as I remember.

[dfwgator]

McGyver could have made a pump with just a paper clip and some duct tape.

[Balding_Eagle]

It isn't the pumps that are the problem, it is the switchgear (enigeer talk for transformers and mondo circuit breakers and switches) and motor starters.

Actually, it's none of those things. It's corrupt, stupid, lazy government employees.

[aworldtrader]

"Okay, am I the only one who sees the irony of water pumps that need major repairs if they get wet?"

ROTF.........that crossed my mind as well :-)

[John Jamieson]

Yes

The Gulf has been pretty much drinking the Mississippi for the last 10,000 years. Probably some pollution in that too.

[idkfa]

A LONG TIME PUMPING

In 1913, Albert Baldwin Wood, A Sewerage and Water Board engineer, developed the screw pump that gave New Orleans a fighting chance in the war against the water that surrounds it. Staying dry is quite a battle for a city below sea level, surrounded by the Mississippi River, Lake Pontchartrain and other bayous and swamps, and with one of the highest rainfall rates in the country. In 1928, Wood designed a 14-foot version of his pump. Almost 50 of Wood's originals are still in use in New Orleans today.
http://gatewayno.com/history/PUMPS.html

[Wonder Warthog]

"For the volume of water to be moved, with the head pressure needed to raise the water high enough to go over the sea wall or back into lake ponchatrain, there arent enough fire trucks or portable pumps in the US right now to move that much water in less than 6 to 8 months"

Uh, the necessary head is only a few feet. And I'm not talking about "fire trucks". I've seen this kind of operation actually "in action" under the supervision of the Corps of Engineers, so I think I have a pretty good idea of what they can do.

[balrog666]

But, who says they will have to be turned that slow to drain the place now?

That's as fast as they can go. Designers assumed wear would be proportional to cycles - so they made them to run as slow as possible to last as long as possible. And since they they are bigger than your average house, they still move a very large volume of water.