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WSJ: The Battle of New Orleans - Even in America, civil order is more fragile than we think.
Wall Street Journal ^ | September 2, 2005 | Editorial

Posted on 09/02/2005 5:23:21 AM PDT by OESY

...Of all the bad news from New Orleans, the most disturbing has been the reports of spreading disorder, with looting, marauding gangs and even sniper fire at helicopters and rescue workers. Americans sometimes expect their government to do far too much....

One reason for the New Orleans breakdown is the size of the calamity, whose growing severity caught nearly everyone by surprise. Louisiana National Guard troops that were deployed initially for rescue and relief efforts weren't available for the more basic duties of public security. The Federal Emergency Management Agency is also geared to providing relief, not order, and only yesterday did the federal government begin to focus on the potential anarchy. Among our political leaders, only Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour seemed to appreciate the genuine risk of disorder, with his early warnings that looters would not be given the benefit of the doubt.

By the way, the allegation that enough National Guard troops aren't available because many are deployed in Iraq doesn't hold up under scrutiny. The Louisiana Guard has something like 3,500 men and women deployed in Iraq, but that leaves another 8,000 or so troops available for post-Katrina duty, and neighboring states undamaged by the hurricane have still others who could be called upon. All told, the Pentagon now estimates that 30,000 National Guard troops will be deployed along the Gulf coast, and another 3,000 regular Army soldiers to pursue the armed gangs on the loose. Our advice is: Do whatever it takes.

One frequent reaction...: New Orleans is typical of Third World countries, something that was thought could never happen in America. This happens to overlook a fair chunk of U.S. history... including riots and violence. But it is also a sign of complacency born of prosperity and the resilience of our legal and civic institutions....

(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Alabama; US: Louisiana; US: Mississippi
KEYWORDS: anarchy; barbour; hurricane; katrina; looters; neworleans
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To: hedgetrimmer

Good point. I totally agree.


101 posted on 09/02/2005 7:33:51 AM PDT by usastandsunited
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To: rit

That was exactly my point. NOLA has a culture of crime and decadence. Hurricane Katrina gave these cockroaches a "blank check" excuse.


102 posted on 09/02/2005 7:41:12 AM PDT by stm
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To: English Nationalist

There's a well kept secret!

Of course there was no media there to glamorize the lawlessness, right?


103 posted on 09/02/2005 7:45:15 AM PDT by SMARTY ("Stay together, pay the soldiers and forget everything else." Lucius Septimus Severus)
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To: longtermmemmory
is your friend saying NO is run by "girly men"

Frankly, he said that some of the people in NO were little more than animals and that some bad things were sure to happen as those animals preyed on the weak and each other.

104 posted on 09/02/2005 7:52:21 AM PDT by isthisnickcool (If fire fighters fight fire and crime fighters fight crime what do freedom fighters fight?)
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To: over3Owithabrain

"what is new is the lack of civil control that allows that element to run amok"

This is not new either. Come to Oakland, Calfornia. Home of street gangs and political corruption.


105 posted on 09/02/2005 8:04:37 AM PDT by Prost1 (New AG, Berger is still free, copped a plea! I still get my news from FR!)
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To: over3Owithabrain
It would have been the same here where I am in Atlanta. The responsible people got out of Dodge and left the helpless with the thugs.

Precisely right. We lived in the inner-city in Atlanta for 25 years, and I know that chaos very like what we're seeing now was always a possibility. The weak and vulnerable lived in fear--behind bolted doors whenever possible--and the fear was directed not just at strangers but at their own relatives and neighbors. What was missing were what the rest of us understand as "families"--married daddies and mommies who could raise children responsibly and instill self-control in them. Without that family structure, other sorts of community organizations and civic structures were either missing or existing only as empty shells.

106 posted on 09/02/2005 8:08:13 AM PDT by madprof98
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To: Prost1

i'm sure the terrorist are all smiling.Think NO is bad? Wait untill you see what happens when the Moslems blow out an entire US city .Probably within the year I predict. TOTAL ANARCHY will be the response. The Urban garbage we live with will turn this into a jungle , just like nO


107 posted on 09/02/2005 8:21:19 AM PDT by hoboken109
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To: madprof98
I did not know whether to laugh or cry this morning when I heard a poor man talking to a CNN reporter at the Convention Center. After describing what had happened there the last two days, "people are starting to try to clean the place up and try and get some order 'round here. I guess we gonna have to do it ourselves. Ain't nobody helpin' us."

These people are so impoverished in spirit that they do not know how to act or what to do without someone from the government there to tell them. They are like children in a school with no teachers and no principal.

108 posted on 09/02/2005 8:22:22 AM PDT by Dems_R_Losers (2,4,6,8 - a burka makes me look overweight!)
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To: Dems_R_Losers

Sounds to me, in this (unfortunately rare) case, they are finally starting to try to do something for themselves. Maybe they are learning from this?


109 posted on 09/02/2005 8:29:08 AM PDT by Netheron
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To: drpix
The physical conditions in N.O. may have descended to the level of the "third world", but too many there have shown their character and morality and to be at a level FAR below those in the "third world".

Exactly. And yet there are those here at FR who continue to deny that a culture that glorifies criminality and vice has anything to do with what is going on in N.O.

110 posted on 09/02/2005 8:37:59 AM PDT by bourbon (It's the target that decides whether terror wins.)
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To: OESY

here's a reason for the "calamity." Take that segment of the population that won't or can't evacuate, that basically needs to be told what to do, and stick them all together in a big concrete bowl for a week. add water.


111 posted on 09/02/2005 8:45:55 AM PDT by the invisib1e hand (tagline)
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To: hoboken109
The Civil Liberties jerkoffs are probably down there already just waiting for a military person (headed by the evil Bush ) to shoot a poor black man.

The ACLU and others can yell all they want, but after what everyone has seen on TV for the past few days, they won't find very many sympathetic ears.

112 posted on 09/02/2005 8:54:59 AM PDT by SuziQ
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To: bourbon

You hit it right on the head my man ..But no one will have the balls to say it in public ..No one of these wussy politicians have the guts to say it .Just ONCE just ONCE I'd like to see a public figure on national TV tel it like it is , the way you just did ..Sometimes I swear to God I think this country desreves to collapse. In 10 years most people wont recognize the US anymore .GAURENTEED


113 posted on 09/02/2005 8:57:31 AM PDT by hoboken109
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To: SuziQ

You're wrong man ..The nation is filled with whining liberals . The TV is a total hate Bush propaganda machine . first blk that gets shot by military will be front page news and be a hero.Sharpton and Jesse will be all over the TV and Chuck assh*le Shumer will be Bush bashing.The country has gone INSANE ..


114 posted on 09/02/2005 8:59:37 AM PDT by hoboken109
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To: SuziQ

Hey, how are you doing? Do you have any family on the MS Coast? If so, are they okay?


115 posted on 09/02/2005 9:01:44 AM PDT by bourbon (It's the target that decides whether terror wins.)
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To: All

Channel 7 news in NYC just had a reporter on the ground saying that all he is hearing is cries from the people wondering why Bush sent the National Guard to Iraq . That's why NO is in the shape it's in . I cant take it anymore..People here in NYC are hit with this onthe MSM EVERY day all day long.How many stupid people are there around here? WILL SOMEONE PLEASE GET THE BALLS TO GET ON TV AND ASK WHY THE DEM MAYOR WAITED 2 DAYS TO EVACUATER NO //He was TOLD on FRIDAY to do it but he had to meet with his lawyers first .I cant take it anymore Im serious ..DOES ANY POLITICIAN EVER HAVE THE BALLS TO SAY THE TRUTH >??????????


116 posted on 09/02/2005 9:03:41 AM PDT by hoboken109
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To: hoboken109
No, you're just seeing what has always happened in the media. They don't like the President, and will look for any reason to bash him. The majority of voters rejected that notion before the last election, and even though some doctored polls suggest otherwise, people STILL support him.

Don't let yourself be discouraged by the trash talk in the media.

117 posted on 09/02/2005 9:04:08 AM PDT by SuziQ
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To: OESY
I posted this in two other threads, but it is also appropriate here:

The buck stops at the mayor of each affected city, the president of each affected parish, and the governors of the affected states. Gov. Blanco seemed stunned that the federal government was immediately on the scene. Why did she have that opinion? It was because she, like millions of Americans, believes that we don't truly have a "federal" government, but a "national" government. She mistakenly believes that her state is but a subdivision within that national government and that she's somewhere on that org chart.

She's wrong. Her state is her responsibility. That she was not prepared for a disaster like this is her fault. I know this sounds callous, but in fact there is no responsibility on the part of the federal government to help the states deal with such disasters. Go look at the Constitution yourself and you'll see for yourself. There is nothing in there that authorizes Congress to appropriate funds for disaster relief and nothing about the Executive Branch dealing with disaster relief.

There is an account of Congress voting to provide relief to a veteran's widow when her house burned down. This occurred sometime in the 1830's and the account details how U.S. Rep. Davy Crockett - yes, that Davy Crockett - convinced Congress it was wrong to appropriate those funds as it was not their money to give. Click here.

Yes, there is a precedent. And that is the problem. Originally, the states were like sovereign nations of their own. The Constitution created a union of those states with a limited federal government to keep the states trading together and to protect them from foreign invasion, etc. Over the years, the states became more and more dependent upon the federal government and the original model was forgotten. State militias were relegated to the National Guard which was basically turned over to the federal government with very little state control.

In the aftermath of the hurricane we're seeing two things. Among the people in NO we're seeing the results of decades of leftist brainwashing that convinces a large number of people that they are "entitled" to something as well as widespread acceptance of the ghetto thug culture. With the people responsible for governing these people we're seeing the results of decades of leftist dependence upon the federal government to fix every little problem.

I'm not going to blame Bush. I'm not going to blame FEMA. I blame the people of NO, their mayor, their parish presidents, and their governor for being unprepared. This is not the federal government's fault, this is their fault. The people have forgotten that they are the government. And now they've got the government that they deserve and it has proven to be deadly.

I'm not saying the Federal Government should not respond to this specific crisis. There really is no other choice at this point. The state utterly failed to live up to its responsibility and somebody has to do something. I'm just lamenting the fact that our federal model is so unrecognizable from what it was intended to be and that because that has happened we're seeing its deadly results.

Let me give you the exact opposite scenario - an example of how things SHOULD happen after a disaster.

In June of 1976 the Grand Teton Dam collapsed sending 80 billion gallons of water into the community of Rexburg, Idaho. Two thirds of the city was destroyed. Was there any rioting? No. Looting? No. In fact, when the Red Cross and the Federal Government did respond to this major disaster, they found that they were barely needed. The city had organized themselves to respond to the disaster. The predominately Mormon community came out and helped each other, to recover what they could, to provide relief for those left homeless, and to keep order. In fact, those who responded to the disaster actually got schooled by the community and the LDS Church in how to deal with a major disaster.

Compare what happened 3 decades ago in Idaho to what is happening in New Orleans right now and it is that much more sickening. I've been pondering lately how thin our civilized society is and how it may break down easily under stress. I had no idea until this hurricane tore through New Orleans and the surrounding area just how thin a veneer our civilization is in some areas of the country. Areas of the country that were dark blue on the map of the last presidential election.

"Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other." - John Adams

118 posted on 09/02/2005 9:05:46 AM PDT by Spiff (Don't believe everything you think.)
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To: SuziQ

Well I see you dont live in the north east . The VAST majority of people here believe the MSM $100..I heard it's Bush's fault about 10 times already around here just doing my chores today / Th e bulk of America STILL uses TV as their main source of information.


119 posted on 09/02/2005 9:06:14 AM PDT by hoboken109
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To: Spiff

Excellent post ..You MUST send that post to the news media via email .I'm serious buddy.


120 posted on 09/02/2005 9:08:43 AM PDT by hoboken109
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