[Mobile Vulgus]

Once again, environmentalists lie to us all!!

[keithtoo]

Yup, either way you slice it, these were perfect people.

No wars, no raping and pillaging, no slavery, no endemic diseases, no death, no distruction, just a perfect world, unlike any other world that has ever existed anywhere.

Then came Whitey to &*^&^* it all up.

[ClearCase_guy]

The forests were burned and the land was farmed, but the soil was left largely intact, or even improved; despite their large numbers, there is little evidence that native Americans often exhausted or polluted water supplies, or overran their resource base.

Perhaps.

But let us also recall that N America once had horses, camels, and elephants. The Indians never learned to make use of these animals, but instead simply ate them. Horses, camels and elephants became extinct in N America due to over-hunting by Indians. Entire elephant herds would be stampeded off a cliff so that Indians could have dinner. This is not good wildlife management.

I teach my children that Indians were primitive stone age people who mis-used their environment, engaged in constant warfare, and thought bloody tortures were good public amusement. It helps balance the Disney Pocahantas image the public schools like to promote.

[hombre_sincero]

not a lie - but just like politicians - liars figure and figures lie.

The writer is mixing his civilizations, time periods and geographical locations to produce the desired result.

In parts of mexico, central america and in Peru - there were major civilizations with sophisticated systems that made europeans look like lower class savages ... but the civilizations did not necessarily co-exist at the same level at the same time and not in the same area.

But in North America especially north of the Rio Grande, the land was not like the jungles that supported the higher civilizations. It was a harsh land that did not support humans well. the forest were nowhere near the size and amount as they are today. the land did not and could not support even the smallest percentage of people it now provides for worldwide.

too tired - going to bed ....

[Apercu]

If we could find any Neanderthals, I am sure some lawyer would sue for reparations from Indians and any other Cro-Magnons within 10,000 miles.

[Drammach]

Although Indian engineering led to some disasters,..

Indeed..
The Ohio mound builders disaster may have been disease through contact with europeans but it may also have been overpopulation, drought, flood or other unknown factors..
At any rate, a large civilization disappeared... and only tribes remained..
In the southwest, a large metropolitan civilization existed..
It's believed now that they practiced human sacrifice, and that they were finally "terminated" by those surrounding tribes..

The Gulf Coast tribes were destroyed by disease from the spanish as were the Aztec and others.. ( of course, they returned the favor, it's believed the Indians gave the Spanish syphillis in exchange.. )
There were some "cities" along the gulf, (esp. Texas and Louisiana) but they had pretty much disappeared by the mid to late 1600's..

The plains tribes had large "metropolitan" areas along the Mississippi and Missouri rivers..
They were decimated by contact with european settlers and no resistance to transferred diseases.. especially smallpox and plague..

There is some truth and some BS in the author's article..
Truth is the apparent fact of various signs of metropolitan civilization in North America as well as Mexico Central America and South America..
Truth is the massive agricultural projects that took place.. As to their success, we're not so sure about that..
BS is the supposed "stewardship" of the land..
Slash & Burn is not stewardship.. sorry..
Planned pastureland for Bison? Not likely..
Bison knock stuff down. Especially trees..
Any expansion of the prairies was probably a conjunction of Bison using young trees as "back scratchers" and local tribes harvesting wood for various purposes..
Prairies don't have a lot of trees, and I doubt the native americans were that selective in their own cutting..

All in all, the article is OK in the sense that it might cause interest in the subject and encourage some people to do some study on American Indian history prior to the arrival of european colonization movement..

[durasell]

Should simply tell the young one that the history of mankind is one of ceaseless slaughter and savagery in which the ground is soaked with the blood and entrails of the innocents. Then put together a movie night with the family featuring the Sorrow and the Pity, news footage from Pol Pot's Cambodia and the "best of" documentaries of primitive tribal practices. As she sits there wide-eyed in horror, quietly sobbing, you'll know you've done your job.

[Atlas Sneezed]

Anyone who thinks Native Americans are great custodians of the environment has never driven by to see all the rusted cars and appliances in the front yards.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks Drammach, interesting article and op/ed.

a thriving, diverse place; a tumult of languages, trade, and culture; the home to tens of millions of people - more, some researchers believe, than Europe at that time.

Waaaay back in the 1970s, in college, my Latin American history prof (among others) taught us about a number of population crashes that happened in Middle America (that's Mexico and Central America), most recently in the early 16th century, when Spanish-borne diseases cut through. The population of Mexico didn't reach that level again until the early 20th century (or so they taught us).

It's always been tempting to figure that, rather than being a Malthusian wet-dream of overpopulation and outrunning of finite resources, that the population crashes prior to the 16th century reflect earlier contacts with the other continents.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.

Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

[denydenydeny]

When Columbus landed, the new research suggests, the Western Hemisphere wasn't filled with scattered bands of ecologically pure hunters and gatherers.

Well, actually, as the article seems to concede, above the Rio Grande it was.

Except that they weren't "ecologically pure." Ask the American mammoth, the American sabertoothed cat, the American horse, etc., etc.

[avg_freeper]

"On first encountering this metropolis, the conquistadors gawped like yokels at the great temples and immense banners and colorful promenades."

Uh, no. I think they were probably gawking at the seemingly endless human sacrifices, blood soaked walls, violent torture, and general savagery displayed by those cretins.

They weren't restrained by any silly notions like all cultures are equally good. So because they had experience with similar evil in their dealings with muslims they wrote off these people as trash to be disposed of. Right or wrong it's obviously understandable.

[Antoninus]

The forests and plains, the teacher will explain, were crowded with bison, beaver, and deer; the rivers, with fish; flights of passenger pigeons darkened the skies. The continent's few inhabitants walked beneath an endless forest of tall trees that had never been disturbed.

Hardly. Many of the Eastern woodland tribes were semi-sedentary, meaning that they built pallisaded villages, and practiced low-level agriculture. However, they knew nothing about crop rotation and tended to exhaust the soil quickly. Once the soil around a village and the local game was exhausted, they simply abandoned that village and built a new one some distance away.

Doesn't sound terribly environmentally friendly, does it?

[Age of Reason]

When Columbus landed, the new research suggests, the Western Hemisphere wasn't filled with scattered bands of ecologically pure hunters and gatherers. Instead, it was a thriving, diverse place; a tumult of languages, trade, and culture

Then it was already overpopulated.

[FOG724]

ping list ping

[big'ol_freeper]

Ping