Naval Academy Will Continue to Say Grace

ANNAPOLIS, MD -- The Naval Academy has no plans to drop the regular saying of grace before its midshipmen's lunch, despite a policy issued this week by the Air Force to discourage most public prayer, a spokesman said.

The Naval Academy is the only U.S. military institution that holds formal prayer at lunch, a ritual that might date to its founding in 1845. Its chaplains say grace at the mandatory lunch for its more than 4,100 midshipmen.

Academy spokesman Cmdr. Rod Gibbons said there are no plans to change the tradition of what he has called "devotional thoughts." Prayers are nondenominational and are led by Roman Catholic, Jewish or Protestant chaplains.

The 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in 2003 that mealtime prayers at the Virginia Military Institute in Lexington, Va., violated the First Amendment.

The American Civil Liberties Union Foundation of Maryland and the Anti-Defamation League have asked the Navy to stop the lunchtime prayer based on that ruling, but academy leaders have declined.

David Rocah, a lawyer for the Maryland ACLU, said the organization has not been able to bring a suit because midshipmen are reluctant to "begin their career by suing the Navy."

The Air Force Academy, in Colorado Springs, Colo., holds 20 seconds of silence before lunch, and no prayer precedes the noon meal at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, N.Y.

The new Air Force regulations came after several internal and external reviews that questioned evangelical proselytizing by faculty, staff and cadets at the Air Force Academy.

The Air Force's new policy says prayer "should not usually be included in official settings such as staff meetings, office meetings, classes or officially sanctioned activities."

Really? That's scary. In Clint Jr's scout troop the scoutmaster and ast. scoutmaster were both Navy pilots and the charter rep was a WW2 sub driver...they've been lobbing him hard to go, is that a mistake?

Hell no . . . my post was kind-of tongue-in-cheek. The thing I discovered about Annapolis was this, and I think it's pretty common: when you're there, you'll despise it, especially Plebe Year. But during Plebe Year you'll find out if you "want" it enough to put up with the bravo sierra---if you don't, that's cool, you simply punch. Youngster Year it gets 100% better: now only the "academy" part of life gets you down. Second class year you begin to see the light, and Firstie Year is magnificent (it's often been said that Midn 1/c and flag ranks are the best ranks in the Naval service). And after you leave Annapolis, you'll thank God in Heaven you had the stones and the courage to tough it out.

To make it through, though, you've got to want to be a ring knocker. Not just to be a USN or USMC officer . . . you can go the skirt way through NROTC or OCS for that. To get through USNA, you've got to really want, specifically, to earn your commission the Old Fashioned Way. Otherwise there's exactly zero reason to be there.

I know what you mean. Its a great place to be FROM, not to be AT....

I was talking to a guy from the alumni assocition and he said that all academy grads are in the top 5% of all undergrads. Even those of us near the anchorman.

I actually looked up the case they referenced and the court specifically says it cannot tell what role the military can have prayer in its ceremonies. If the ACLU has its way there will be no chaplains in the military and the people they help will be out in the cold.

Dear Mr. Foxman, I have read the letter that you have addressed to the Superintendent of the Naval Academy about the Noon Time prayer at King Hall. While Iappreciate your concern about this tradition, however I find that your concerns are unwarranted. Since you have probably never been to one of these meals I would find your premese that this is a "formation" prepostrous. As an Alumnius of the Naval Academy I am well aware of the situation as it exists. I believe that the founders intent in the First Amendment was to provide anation where there was not a State Sponsored and suppored religion,unlike is visible in some muslium countries today (Saudi Arabia recognizes no religion but Islam). I noticed that you cited Mellon v. Blunting (327 F.3d 355 )where a "supper prayer" at VMI was struck down. However you did not adequately research the whole opinion since, "We also note that we[the court] are not called upon to address whether, or to what extent, the military may incorporate religious practices into its ceremonies. The Virginia General Assembly, not the Department of Defense, controls VMI." 327 F.3d 355 The military does have a history of incorprating religious practices into its units and ceremonies as does Congress itself!!! There is a Corps of Chaplains designed to provide spiritual growth to military members. There is a Navy Chapel, Navy Prayers, and Navy Hymns. On Navy Ships the Chapel Pennant flies above the National Ensign, acknowledging there is a higher power. You set forth the that the Naval Academy must, "... respect the rights of religious minorities and of those who are not religious at all. Consequently, such institutions may not permit any form of religious coercion among their faculty and student body, including compulsory prayer services." I would set forth that those rights are being respected since there isopportunties for midshipmen of many faiths to worship in their own way. This prayer at the Naval Academy is by no mean "compulsory." If a midshipman dosent want to hear the Noon Meal Prayer it would be easy for them to enter King Hall afterwards. In addition Chaudhuri v. Tennessee the court set forth that "it does not seem to us[the court] that the practice of including nonsectarian prayers or moments of silence at [school] events creates any church-state entanglement at all." 130 F. 3d 232 While I agree with you that Religion should be a personal choice, it offends me that your organization would waste time on this issue. What you seek to do is build a wall between Church and State, something with according to the court,"...it has never been thought either possible or desirable to enforce a regime of total separation...," 258 F.3d 274. Daniel Schumacher USNA 2004

Great for the US Navy. As a VMI alumni and a former US Naval officer, I find it outstanding.
At VMI, the ones who brought the case to the court via the ACLU were alleged Christians.
At VMI there was(and probably still is) a huge Thai and Taiwanese contingent. Most of my Thai BRs were Buddhists and they had a respect for other peoples religion. You never heard anything from them as we bowed in respect to God during a meal time. They had respect for other peoples religions.
If I were in Thailand and the majority in Thailand were buddhist, I would respect their right to worship their god.
These people in the ACLU have no respect for religion and they turn molehills into mountains. They hate religion and
I believe the military in general. If you are so weak and sensitive to other peoples religions, then you do not belong serving in a country where protestants, catholics, muslims, and buddhists, etc are fighting side by side in combat.

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