Posted on 08/24/2005 5:30:08 AM PDT by Happy2BMe
"BUT, I do know factually that it is a shared cultural presumption BY HISPANICS that immigration to the U.S. is some sort of cultural "right" and there is little respect otherwise by many about immigration laws."
I was asking a co-worker about this Monday. He was born-raised in Guatemala and has been here since 1968. His take from listening to friends and Spanish radio is that the emigration to the U.S. is considered a cultural right by Hispanics from many countries, not only Mexico. They consider it only fair in view of the percieved abuses committed by the U.S. down there over the last 50yrs (whereas I guess the Mexicans consider the U.S. Southwest rightfully theirs by original conquest).
Most of them would rather stay home in their own countries but come here for the economic opportunities. They have no intention of assimilating like the old guard immigrants have, and will at least try to get here no matter what.
The scary thing is I have had this conversation with this guy at least 3 times in the last yr and he always starts off with the "nobody hates the illegals more than the ones who came legally" thing but escalates in vehement defense of the rights of the illegal to come here. I always break off the conversation before it gets out of hand.
Just from my own experiences, the Latins (or Hispanics) place a very high emphasis on ego matters (looking-good, being considered high class, posturing/profiling but underneath there is a lot of chaos/dysfuntion, and I mean far more dysfunction than what is common in the U.S. today.
Yes, my experience, also. Such that, as I wrote previously and have here before on several occasions, it's an intense aspect to the general Hispanic culture (not limited to Mexico) that they are entitled to come to the U.S. by whatever means.
Which explains the painstaking and massive abuse of our border and immigration requirements and supposed-restrictions. It is also one of the most irritating and concerning aspects to many Americans, the "why can't they just respect our laws" sentiments by many Americans about illegal immigrants -- either they're stupid, unable to comprehend the laws or they're blindly disregarding them, is how most of us respond incredulously (because most Americans would n.e.v.e.r presume upon any other country to the extent that so many illegal aliens presume upon the U.S.).
Where the "we deserve it" feelings arise as to illegal aliens presuming to violate immigration laws without much of a thought about it is another issue but I CAN say that it's the biggest cultural clash going and certainly the reason so many do immigrate illegally. Asked about it, I've yet to hear Hispanics denounce the presumption, as with your story, they will eventually lapse into a tale of how they 'deserve' it and such, why the laws are wrong, why they should not be respected, just any and various rationalizations why there should not be borders at all, or at least, Hispanics should not be asked to respect them.
It's preposterous presumption to my and many others' view because there's no imperative that bestows Hispanics with some special gift of citizenship just because they're from Central and South America. It makes no real sense, nothing based in reality can support it...and yet it's an intense belief and that's what I was describing earlier, as to the cultural problem. That is that of Hispanics, and not of Americans.
Looking back over history, there was enough pillaging and stealing and land grabbing by Spaniards to more than meet if not exceed that by Europeans as to the Americas and there is not the tiniest bit of "indebtedness" to the descendants of Spaniards by present day citizens of the U.S., and yet this preposterous presumption persists among Hispanics.
There's so much current evidence to prove that Europeans were in the Americas either along with or even earlier than Northern Asian/Northern Europeans and even the FIRST wave of immigration into North America from the West was by people who were Northern European.
The SECOND wave of peoples were even a mix of Northern European and Northern Asian (Mongel area, and if you'll visit that area today -- Northern Russia and Northern China even, in the far East of the Asian continent, you can find CHINESE features on VERY TALL PEOPLE WITH BLOND TO WHITE HAIR). Those were the people who made the second migration, while the first were more European than Asian, based upon DNA.
Anyway, as to the old "you stole our land" thing about Europeans and "Indians," it IS NOW ESTABLISHED that the "Indians" in North America have a mixture of DNA from both those migrations, and thus, the White Man is their ancestor. So, theoretically, the white man just moved back to his land, to a great extent.
It's proven fact. And, as to Spain, the people from Spain arrived so much later. They cannot be considered, nor their descendants, as being holders of some proprietary ownership of two entire continents, is my point and the Hispanic presumption that North America is owed them is entirely foolish, it's entirely not based in reality.
Most of South America was populated by Southern Asians. Even the Hopi are of Asian ancestry. In effect, the only "indiginous" living beings to North America, at least, are the horse and the rhinocerous. And a few other species.
But, as to humans, the "white man" appears to have been in North America first, while the Australian Aborigine was first in South America. Sorta' leaves Spaniards out of the mix.
Amen. And there should be some rules about the taste. I've had some stuff called "Cincinnati Chili," and I understand that the people in Ohio really love it, and that's fine. But it has a wierd taste to it, no heat, and it doesn't taste like chili. Just call it something else. Don't call it "chili."
I ask that question any time I see a poll like this one. Its a rhetorical question really. I just like to point out how opinion polls mean very little when compared to the story election results tell.
Over the course of 12 years, my family moved from Alamagordo to Roswell then to Portales.
Fifteen years later I met a man in Fayetteville, North Carolina at a dinner party.
As we began talking, the subject of New Mexico came up and I told him (a complete stranger) that I had lived in New Mexico and had moved around there quite a bit in my youth.
He said he had as well.
In fact, he had moved to the same towns I had lived in and in the exact same sequence.
Then it started getting a little 'spooky.'
When it came down to moving into the third consecutive city - the man moved into the same house that I had lived in fifteen years prior.
True story.
(And I never met that man again in my life.)
Wow, that is an amazing story!! Definitely one to make you get shivers up your spine. The odds of something like that happening are astronomical. Were you both living in the same town that you met him at the dinner party?
It is interesting that Unavision has plans to launch an ENGLISH LANGUAGE soap opera. The reason? So few 2nd and 3rd generation Latinos speak Spanish. I see it all the time in the office. Some of the older folks bring in their sons and daughters to "translate" for them. They understand me well enough but when they try and translate technical or financially abstract terms, I know the Spanish words better than they do at times. It is really a hoot at times. The kid was speaking to me in English and I was translating into Spanish for the father at one point.
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