Iraq draft says laws must conform to Islam -text

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[Charlesj]

Iraq draft says laws must conform to Islam -text

BAGHDAD, Aug 22 (Reuters) - A draft constitution for Iraq to be presented to parliament on Monday will make Islam "a main source" for legislation and ban laws that contradict religious teachings, members of the parliamentary drafting panel said.

[KDD]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1468086/posts?q=1&&page=1

[goldstategop]

Its THEIR country. Its funny to watch the Left rail against the American "occupation," Bush sucks, America is no good, demand we get out in a huffy and then turn around to demand Iraq write a constitution in line with American values. Well, which one is it? Do we have no business being there or do we get to tell the Iraqis what form of government they ought to have. A constitution is basically a set of compromises. Whatever its flaws, Iraq's new charter will leave the country a lot freer than it was under Saddam and Islamic laws will be applied a great deal more leniently than Zarqawi and the extreme Islamists would like. Freedom is not a condition that is meant to make every one happy - its made to give every individual the chance to pursue happiness.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)

[goldstategop]

Ahmad Chalabi is moderate for what passes for the political class in much of the Middle East. He understands that unless every one gives up some things they would like, there will be no constitution and no free society. Iraq's democracy is a work in progress. We can't expect a country that only emerged from a totalitarian dictatorship to adopt pluralist practices and institutions overnight. Our country didn't even enfranchise any one except propertied white males when the Constitution was written in 1787. We've come a long way in two centuries. And isn't the whole point of multiculturalism accepting the fact cultures have different values and beliefs? More to the point, can an Islamic society be a democracy? We shall see.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)

[Amelia]

And your point?

If we put the "religious right" in charge of drafting a new constitution for the United States, do you think that maybe they'd want one a bit more overtly religious than the one we have now? Maybe one that specifically said abortion was illegal, prayer was okay in schools & other public places, same sex marriage and sexual immorality were illegal, etc.?

I'm not saying that having Islamic law enshrined in the Iraqi constitution is a good thing; from what I've seen it's not that compatible with human rights. HOWEVER, if you have at least a third of the drafters who are very religious, and that is their religion, I don't know how you would expect anything else -- unless maybe we just spelled it all out for them and made them take what we wanted them to have.

[KDD]

Turkey has a predominant Islamic population.

Take a look at their Constitution...secular.

We made Japan take what we wanted them to have.
Seemed to work just fine with them.

[Txsleuth]

LOL---I do think you may be right---

I stopped and thought about my previous posts (and reread them)...and boy, I did sound way too hyperbolic...and you are correct, I had just listened to Shep Smith.(my worst mistake)....

BUT, I also think that I have been having a reaction to this, that is in part tied to what I saw last night on that 9/11 special...

There is just SO much bad stuff going on that we don't know about...that I at least want us to be able to influence the things we DO know about...like this Iraqi constitution...

BTW...thanks for the compliment and slapping some sense into me...I have gotten it from other posters and I am ashamed and will behave now...

[60 Miles North]

this is a mess

[Txsleuth]

Hopefully, in the next three days...there will be come changes made that make it LESS messy...not more.

[new yorker 77]

It's only a mess if you base your opinion on a fake headline from CNN.

The Kurds would never agree to an Islam-only Constitution, which this is not.

If you chop up the lines of this draft Constitution into a thousand pieces, you get the crooked CNN headline.

[R_Kangel]

So, under islamic law, could the US be thrown out of Iraq?

[Amelia]

Turkey has a predominant Islamic population. Take a look at their Constitution...secular.

I think Turkey's population is more secular than Iraq's Shia, too. I don't believe the Sunnis are as worried about Islamic law, but again, I could be mistaken.

We made Japan take what we wanted them to have. Seemed to work just fine with them.

It appears to me that there are two differences here. Again, I'm not involved with the process, so I'm stating my opinion based on what I've seen.

It seems to me that in Japan, we were more inclined to want revenge, and less inclined to worry about the perception of the "democratic process" or about getting on out of there.

In Iraq, we seem to want it to at least appear that this is an Iraqi democratic process, which means they have to have some say in it.

AND, we seem to want it done ON TIME above all else, because the administration, the media, or both seem to think that every delay is a failure, and also until a new government is fully in place & stable, we can't leave, and a lot of people seem to have expected us to be gone by now. (I personally think that was an unrealistic view.)

Personally I think this attitude is shortsighted, especially given that there's no history of a democratic process in Iraq and it took quite a while for our own country to get it right, but that's the attitude I'm seeing.

[new yorker 77]

These people are butting heads on the Constitution.

Idiots in the media grab on to the Islam line. They eliminate all other references to 'conforming to democracy' and 'equal rights for all persons'.

All this 'panties in a bunch' from people who are clueless on Iraq and the role Islam will play.

The Sunnis and Kurds will not ratify a Constitution that has Islam only law, which this draft is not.

They will get something done that will be acceptable to all. It will not be the evil CNN fake headline.

Patience folks.

If patience is a virtue, it's a virtue many do not have.

[KDD]

I agree with much of what you write, especially this AND, we seem to want it done ON TIME above all else, because the administration, the media, or both seem to think that every delay is a failure, and also until a new government is fully in place & stable, we can't leave, and a lot of people seem to have expected us to be gone by now. (I personally think that was an unrealistic view.)

We need a presence there like we maintained in Germany after WWII. We need large bases in the center of the Hell that is the Middle East. That is where our demons are coming from.

[Amelia]

We need a presence there like we maintained in Germany after WWII. We need large bases in the center of the Hell that is the Middle East. That is where our demons are coming from.

I think really Germany was easier than Iraq, because at least we had a fairly common culture. Also, people then didn't expect a bloodless war that would end happily in 30 minutes like some sitcom on TV.

This may be off topic, but I think it would help if we "regular folks" were asked to make some sort of sacrifice for the war. Ask us to buy War Bonds, or carpool, or send donations for packages to the soldiers, or SOMETHING to give ordinary people a way to "buy into" it.

I just don't think "go shopping" is the way to ask us to help fight the War on Terror.

[KDD]

I just don't think "go shopping" is the way to ask us to help fight the War on Terror.

Agreed.

Neither is an Administration hesitant to identify the true face of our enemy liable to maintain support for very long. We need a little less compassion and a lot more thrashing to happen before this World Wide Islamic Jihad against us is defeated.

[Republican Red]

Tough love. lol

Because I spend way too much time on FR, I have gotten in the habit of weighting certain posters more than others. I know that post was way out there for you and out of "character". Sorry if it came off condescending/rude.

Shep was going into convulsions in his predictions that the world as we know it was ending. The guest he had on was better but not much. Blitzer had Reuel Marc Gerecht, the Director of the Middle East Initiative at the Project for the New American Century, on his show. Mr. Gerecht was quite refreshing in a storm of craziness.

[60 Miles North]

maybe we need to make a deal with Saddam...he won't be executed if he uses his influence to persuade the Sunnis to play ball.

I frankly see nothing good coming here. These people will never agree.

[billbears]

You stated that it was a requirement that certain laws be made.

The draft of the Iraqi Constitution states that all laws must be in line with Islam. Therefore no laws can be in opposition to Islam. So all laws made will be made with Islam as the focus. If all laws are made with a religion in mind, and said laws can't contradict said religion, what you have is the beginning of a theocracy. You can call it a democracy all you want, but eventually the laws will either have to forgo the democracy or the religion. Human nature tells us that people will go with what they know. As democracy is foreign to the region, and has failed in the region before, the people will cling to the religion alone eventually

[Bush2000]

I'm afraid of Iraq going from dictator to democracy, then to a repressive theocracy after a revolution.

Sadly, it's going to happen. The population imbalance between Shiites, Kurds, and Sunnis makes it practically inevitable. It looks like we will have replaced a bad dictator with an even worse theocracy, headed by another Ayatollah. The Shiites are already forming militias. The mullahs are talking peace right now, but it's only a matter of time before blood really starts spilling in the streets.

[60 Miles North]

here ya go:

Sunnis threaten civil war as Iraq constitution deadline extended
From Catherine Philp in Baghdad
IN A dramatic midnight turnaround, Iraq’s ruling Shia pulled back from threats to force the new constitution through parliament, putting off a vote to buy more time to win over Sunni Arabs who had threatened civil war if it was passed.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7374-1746919,00.html