If Bases Aren't Needed, Some Fear Fleet Is Next

NY Times ^ | August 22, 2005 | WILLIAM YARDLEY

[Pharmboy]

C. M. Glover for The New York Times
The submarine base in Groton, Conn., is among 33 major bases the Pentagon is seeking to close.

GROTON, Conn., Aug. 19 - In a report to Congress in March 2004, the Navy projected that it would need a fleet of 55 nuclear-powered attack submarines in 2024. A year later, the Navy lowered the projection to 45. By May, Admiral Vern Clark, who was then the chief of naval operations, said he wanted 41. Others now talk of a fleet in the 30's.

It has been 16 years since the Berlin Wall fell, 14 since the Soviet Union dissolved and about a decade since the Navy began rapidly reducing its number of underwater weapons, which helped win the cold war by keeping Soviet submarines in check and the seas open.

Now, with terrorists the targets of the armed forces and Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld talking of "transformation" in the military, the future is in doubt for the submarine port in Groton, which has been set among old oaks on the east bank of the Thames River for nearly 90 years.

In the coming week, an independent federal commission is expected to vote on whether President Bush should adopt a Pentagon plan to close Groton and move its 18 attack submarines to bases in Georgia and Virginia. The closing of Groton would save $1.6 billion over 20 years, and has been proposed as part of a larger plan to close 33 major bases in a nationwide realignment that would save $48.8 billion in the same time frame, according to the Pentagon.

[Pharmboy]

Please...keep the subs. Happy to pay taxes to keep the bubbleheads cruising.

[snowsislander]

I find it incredible that we are implementing a vastly wasteful drug "benefit" plan during a war, while shutting down critical military installations.

And this with the Republicans running both the legislative and executive branches.

[David Isaac]

Do you, for one moment, the Democrats would be able to get away with doing this?

Focusing on terrorism, is going to lead to many interesting developments. Not saying that they don't desperately need to have their butts kicked.

[rbg81]

Yup, as China & Iran build up, we draw down. This at a time when we are supposedly fighting a Global War on Terror.

To many in this country, military spending has become an "intolerable" burden. This is not just true on the left. Many senior citizens, who were once patriotic, now just care about their SS and Medicare benefits to the exclusion of all else. To them, it doesn't matter if our Navy consists of two rubber dingies, just so long as they get their monthly check and free prescription drugs. Paying for benefits to all the illegals flooding into this country doesn't help either. Maybe we're not so far behind the EU after all.

[Jaysun]

I thought about this the other day. We don't fight in the seas like we used to, but we have to maintain a strong navy for blockades, transport, reconnaissance, to protect marine trade, etc.

[Jaysun]

To many in this country, military spending has become an "intolerable" burden. This is not just true on the left. Many senior citizens, who were once patriotic, now just care about their SS and Medicare benefits to the exclusion of all else. To them, it doesn't matter if our Navy consists of two rubber dingies, just so long as they get their monthly check and free prescription drugs. Paying for benefits to all the illegals flooding into this country doesn't help either. Maybe we're not so far behind the EU after all.

I don't blame the senior citizens - they were duped by the government. They paid into SS for 50 years. The problem is the program itself. That's why I wish the President's SS plan were getting more traction (though his free drug plan is absurd). SS and Medicare might very well end up being the death of us.

[Broker]

Christopher Dodd and all his useful idiotical Connecticut liberals can eat this. Let them condemn New London for the Chinese who need cheap labor to repair their vast sub fleet.

[wolfcreek]

All those benefits won't do them much good if their all dead from terrorism.

[Coldwater Creek]

There is no excuse for any Senior to be duped about SS and Medicare. Nothing has changed, except that Medicare is paying better than it has in the past. Our SS checks come every month just like always.

I was self employed for years and years, and paid 15.3 percent.

[CBart95]

Then again, how responsible are we for the ridiculous notions some people entertain?

[Brilliant]

Also a $289 billion highway bill when gas is $3.00 a gallon and going higher.

[ryan71]

Many other countries, like China, are adding submarines.

Down the road, we're going to find ourselves in a crisis. We're going to need more subs and ships, but the technologies and facilities to build them may be gone.

[Jaysun]

There is no excuse for any Senior to be duped about SS and Medicare. Nothing has changed, except that Medicare is paying better than it has in the past. Our SS checks come every month just like always.

I was self employed for years and years, and paid 15.3 percent.

What?
The "duped" part is: Surprise! SS is unsustainable because it's basically run like a chain letter. Surprise! You'd have been better off stuffing 10% of your income (average income of $35K a year) under your mattress. You'd have about $175,000 right now. As it stands, you can draw about $12,000 a year when you turn 65. If you live to the average age of 75, you'll have received only $120,000. It's a rip off, but you were forced to participate.

[Pharmboy]

Excellent summary of 'zackly how I feel.

[Jaysun]

WTF are you talking about? The choice was made by the government, not them. They've been forced to participate in that sh*tty program - we all have. So now you want to blame people that are 70 and that have paid in their whole lives for wanting an $800 check every month? The blame rest with the government.

[Alter Kaker]

Do you, for one moment, the Democrats would be able to get away with doing this?

Actually, its the Democrats who want to keep Groton (a blue-state facility after all) open. Its BRAC and Rumsfeld who want to transition away from subs.

[jimbergin]

"If you live to the average age of 75, you'll have received only $120,000. It's a rip off, but you were forced to participate."

average life expectancy at age 65 is 17.9 years or more. Your age 75 is closer to expectancy at birth. It gets longer the older you get. But I still agree that Social Security was/is a rip off on all of us.

[Dont_Tread_On_Me_888]

Gotta keep those $15 billion cash grants going to Africa (probably will be up to $30 billion next time).

Gotta keep funding the UN.

Just have to be the top funding nation for the IMF and World Bank, the source of funding to many terrorist nations. Just gotta do that.

Gotta keep giving billions to Yemen, the Palestinians, Paskistan, you know. Just have to.

Gotta keep sending food to the North Koreans.

Gotta keep canceling debt--foreign governments owed us billions, but we just HAD to cancel their debt.

Just gotta keep the open borders so we can be billion dollar welfare mamas to the Mexicans.

Gotta cut back on the F-22, cut back on the attack subs, cut back on the F-35, gotta cut back on the DD(X), gotta close bases, just have to! We HAVE to pay for all this global welfare, you know--besides, there will be another tsunami someday and will just have to send more terrorist nations cash grants when that happens--just gotta!

All this is far more important than defending our nation, you know.

[Dont_Tread_On_Me_888]

We don't fight in the seas like we used to

You are so wrong.

When the nukes start flying, the missiles will come from the subs first. When we are nuked by a terrorist nation,, it will come from a sub-launched cruise missile.

When Taiwan is conquered by he Chicoms, it will only happen through the use of sea power. The Chicoms will use sea power for a major part of their attacks, and will use their sea power to keep the USA at bay--they are aggressively buying/building anti-ship missiles for their navy. Their navy is designed around fighting the US Pacific fleet.

If all-out nuclear war occurs, the first missiles will reach major targets from sub-launched cruise missiles that will give us little or no warning.

[CedarDave]

One report on Fox overnight said the BRAC commission was getting its report ready and that the defense department wouldn't necessarily agree with it as it would delete some from the DOD list and add others. Cries of distress no matter what they come up with.