Posted on 08/21/2005 1:01:15 PM PDT by sportutegrl
In Florida, it would be the state Dept of Revenue. They already enforce the sales tax. The state would pass the collected revenue to the Feds.
IRS? Where?
In Florida, it would be the state Dept of Revenue. They already enforce the sales tax. The state would pass the collected revenue to the Feds.At what point does a state Dept of Revenue collecting and enforcing federal taxes and federal tax laws NOT become an arm of the Federal Government?...At what point do those state workers enforcing federal tax laws NOT become federal law enforcement?IRS? Where?
Well, we did have a war about 140 years ago to do away with the 10th Amendment after all.
But seriously, the states are being compensated .25% for doing that, as are the business owners. So by your logic, as a business owner, when I collect state sales tax, I'm a state law enforcement official? Get real.
Don't be spreading that around too much. I love to bust a few people I know about living off my taxes.
The flat tax insulates existing wealth from taxation when it is consumed, but not when it is invested.
The Fair Tax insulates existing wealth from taxation when it is invested, but not when it is consumed.
If Steve Forbes would grasp this second point, I believe he would abandon the flat tax in favor of the Fair Tax. But, so far, he doesn't appear to recognized it or its importance. It's possible he may be favoring the flat tax because it's easier to do (although not nearly as significant reform).
Flat taxers recognize two things that sales taxers do not:
1. A sales tax and a flat tax are economically equivalent. Going forward, they will affect the economy in the same exact manner.2. A sales tax has severe negative implications at transition that may be elimanated with proper transition policies.
And as a general matter, flat tax advocates seem to have a much better grasp of economics. They tend not to simply cut-and-paste arguments that they don't understand from sales tax advocacy sites.
The flat tax insulates existing wealth from taxation when it is consumed, but not when it is invested.Investment income is not taxed under the Flat Tax. On the personal level, only wages, salaries, and pension distributions are taxed.
And as a general matter, flat tax advocates seem to have a much better grasp of economics. They tend not to simply cut-and-paste arguments that they don't understand from sales tax advocacy sites.I agree with you. Anyone who says the Flat Tax is not a consumption tax doesn't understand the economics of the situation. Most FairTax supporters don't understand the difference between a consumption tax and a sales tax. There are other (better) ways to tax consumption, namely the Flat Tax.
Tax consumption and reward saving and investment. Consumption (Gas, cars, tires etc) is what generates costs to governments while saving and investment generates jobs, income and wealth.
My entire financial portfolio is in the lottery but I support the FairTax.
The government also promised you that your SS withholding was going into a trust fund, too. Crying over government lies does nothing to move the ball forward.
You have faith in government promises and I will trust the market.
So by your logic, as a business owner, when I collect state sales tax, I'm a state law enforcement official? Get real.Get real yourself. You're not "enforcing" any laws, you're complying with them.
And as a general matter, sales tax advocates seem to have a much better grasp of history. They tend not to simply cut-and-paste arguments that they don't understand from flat tax advocacy sites.
Here's the thing with your Roth IRA money. When you get it out of the IRA, you go spend it. Under the flat tax, or any income tax, you're paying the embedded taxes included in the cost of that item. When an item is produced, the tax burden of the producer is passed on to the consumer in the price of the item. You're paying it anyway.
The Fair Tax just splatters the same total amount all over the receipt so America can get justifiably pissed off at our Federal tax burden, instead of shuffling around, complaining about the 'price gouging'of the eeeeee-vil corporations like a bunch of leftists.
Flat taxers recognize two things that sales taxers do not:
1. A sales tax and a flat tax are economically equivalent. Going forward, they will affect the economy in the same exact manner.
Too bad that the reality is they or only "economically equivalent" in the sense that they do not tax re-invested income and thus have a similar size taxbase. For a given static consumption level both will return the same tax revenue. The equivalency fails however in accounting for changes in consumer/investor and business behavior under a retail sales tax replacing all income & payroll taxes as opposed to a flat tax on business income with a SS/Medicare payroll tax.
Refer ==> Flat Tax as Seen by a Tax Preparer
by Vern Hoven
Unfortunately the fact is that tax related overhead cost of business are significantly higher on all businesses in the chain of production with a Flat Tax with both business income and payroll taxes in place, overhead cost not present(do to repeal of said taxes) under a retail only sales tax system administered by the states.
The primary cost burdens on business associated with a retail sales tax are those of retailers collecting and remitting retail taxes from their customes to be remitted to their state same as they do currently, though under the FairTax legislation being reimbursed by up to 20% of sales taxes collected up to the first $200 a month, and by 0.25 basis points thereafter which ever is greater.
Today business is not compensated for the acting as the tax collector for government that it is. Nor are they compensated for tax remittences under the Flat Tax.
The nasty that Flat Tax proponents totally space out is that the overhead costs to business are just as great under the Flat Tax as the income tax it replaces, and the Flat Tax does zero as regard SS/Medicare payroll taxes. Thus prices receive by producers under the Flat Tax version of equivalent "consumption tax" must of necessity be driven upward. Instead of falling as in the case of a retail sales tax system that allows the price received by the producer to decline from the savings in tax system related costs on business.
2. A sales tax has severe negative implications at transition that may be elimanated with proper transition policies.
A nice generalized statement, perhaps you would like to expand in some detail on that, as there are numerous transitional provisions in the FairTax to provide for the worst of such problems.
Among them are:
Whatever. There's no IRS anyway you cut it.
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