Posted on 08/17/2005 10:57:12 PM PDT by SWO
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (BATFE), who seem to go out of their way to alienate gun owners with their heavy-handedness, behaved in a shameful manner this last weekend at the Showmasters' gun show in Richmond.
I had reports from members of police going to their houses while the member was waiting for their approval to purchase a gun at the show! The police asked the spouse and other family members questions about the purchases and filled in a survey! "Did you know your husband was going to a gun show today?" "Did you know your husband was going to buy a gun today?" and many other such questions.
If no one was home at the gun purchaser's house, the police went to the neighbors! "Did you know that your neighbor was buying a gun today? How do you feel about him doing so?"
One member, who was carrying a personal gun to sell, was approached by BATFE and taken to a car while they checked him out. The officer said in front of Showmasters' management, "Did you know you need a business license to sell a gun at this show? I have seen you at a lot of shows - are you in the business of selling guns? I think you are." That's called a fishing expedition and intimidation. In the end they let the VCDL member go because their fish hooks came up empty.
They had over 17 BATFE agents at that show. Richmond and Henrico had a large number of officers running to the homes of anyone purchasing a handgun to ask questions.
I guess Mayor Wilder is flush with cash all of a sudden. Too bad he didn't use that money to put all those cops into the rougher neighborhoods of Richmond, instead of harassing the decent citizens who buy guns at a gun show.
And, if you are sitting down, the main BATFE agent at the show told Showmasters' management that Richmond was going to be the model for this kind of behavior across the nation!!!
BUT, THERE IS GOOD NEWS.
Steve Elliott, who heads up C&E Gun Shows and is affiliated with Showmasters, along with Annette Gelles, who heads up Showmasters, went to Washington with some lawyers to get this straightened out on Monday. (BTW, Steve told me that he has spent in excess of $10,000 this year on legal fees fighting this kind of abuse.)
Steve and Annette were told by the BATFE in DC that BATFE would no longer be sending officers to people's houses who were purchasing a firearm and that what happened in Richmond should not have happened.
We will be watching carefully to see if BATFE keeps its word or not. Report any such abuse immediately to VCDL, along with the officer's name, badge number, and department.
*************************************************************************** VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. (VCDL). VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The membership considers the Right to Keep and Bear Arms to be an essential human right.
VCDL web page: http://www.vcdl.org
Yep, the Waco truth went down the jackboot memory hole.
NRA ? GOA ? JPFO ? .....((cricket)) ........((cricket)).......damn
Actually, that's not true. The ATF fired the first shots at Waco and admitted as much at trial.
L
Their attorney succesfully argued that the Fedgoons were killed in self defense. Not one single Davidian was convicted of killing anyone.
IMO, they should have wasted them all instead of allowing that stupid 'ceasefire' that resulted in the FBI murdering a bunch of women and kids.
L
And of course George HW Bush was deeply offended by the comment.
Brings up the question "Just exactly WHO is in charge?"
He has done exactly whay I was afraid he would. This is the second event regarding the BATFE I have read recently which indicates a much more hostile attitute towards gun owners.
These decisions are not made without white house approval. These are hot button issues and always get discussed with the ones in charge.
I saw a letter on the History Channel a few days ago which Bush Sr. wrote to his mother while in pilot training. There was nothing wrong with the letter but his attitude regarding the poorly educated pilots from rural areas speaks volumes about his world attitudes. I immediately thought of Chuch Yeager.
Never forget that Bush sr. resigned from the NRA at a critical time in order to twist the knife just a little harder. I despise him and his Son.
Absolutely incredible...is this true?
Could you ping me if you have a list.
Check the link in Post 47. It's true. I'm seeing it crop up elsewhere on pro-2A websites.
Thanks for the "get back" and link. This really pisses me off!
don't disband them. send them, their funding, their arsenal, and their jackboots to border patrol.
Yeah... you kinda get used to the feeling of disgust and rage after a while.
You remember the BATFE guys who went up on the roof? They were machine-gunned through the wall, dead and wounded, lying on the rooftop.
They were shot by their own guy, the first one inside, when one of the goons popped up behind him, and he turned and spray-n-prayed a whole magazine.
They climbed on the roof and were ambushed. Those guys didn't have a chance to knock (not that they would have anyway).
Knocking wasn't part of the plan. As far as who fired first is concerned, it seems that the first shot was fired by ATF against dogs, and this was their plan. The two sides are in disagreement about who shot next (imagine that). Normally I'd take the word of a fed over a criminal member of some whacky cult, but the ATF is a whacky cult of its own.
Koresh's toadies were definitely laying for the Feds, though, and that's not excusable behaviour.
The major problem with BATFE is that their jurisdiction is so narrow (alcohol moonshining, tobacco smuggling, and federal firearms violations), that they don't have enough to do, frankly.
Same reason ICE has caught something like tens of thousands of kiddie porn geeks lately. They are not allowed to enforce immigration laws or hunt violent illegal immigrants, so they pick something that's unpopular enough they're allowed to arrest for it.
With the Democratic establishment in most cities, and the all-Democrat staffs in most urban newsrooms, gun owners are about as popular as pedophiles there (less popular, actually: look how pedo-murderers always turn out to have been released once before by bleeding heart Dem judges).
A feller could get hurt trying to infiltrate the MS-13 or another violent criminal gang, which is another reason lots of Feds would rather chase paperwork violators at gun shows.
d.o.l.
Criminal Number 18F
batfe has no jurisdiction on records checks. that's the FBI. batfe is a TAX AGENCY. their job is to keep records and collect taxes on NFA weapons. they should not take military action over alleged violations a $200 tax. and that is exactly what happened at both waco and ruby ridge. it was alleged that they had an NFA regulated weapon that they hadn't paid a $200 tax on.
if you do that on income taxes they send you a letter. do that with an NFA weapon, the take military action.
and also, batfe has admitted numerous times that their records are often incorrect and incomplete.
What you said is true. One of the biggest dangers threatening our freedoms are the Federal and State employee unions. Talk about a conflict of interest?
Nope, neither did the whackos, and the shots weren't from a .50.
I never heard the dog story, and challenge you on this point to provide your source.
I wasn't the poster you addressed, but as I made the same point on the dogs, my source was Ashes of Waco (a rather calm and reasoned book). See also here: http://www.hardylaw.net/dogs.html
Money quote:
Q. .... How many dogs did the ATF shoot out there that day?A. There were five, the mother and four pups.
Q. Okay. And they were--were they all shot?
A. Yes.
That same link includes two named ATF agents' confession to shooting dogs, although they admit neither firing first nor shooting puppies.
Both sides of this dispute routinely lie, so I am always leery of stuff on the net. It's pretty clear that Waco was not the finest hour of law enforcement. But the FBI made even more of a mess of things than the AFT -- which took some doing.
The FBI in the nineties had it come out that the top guy in counterintelligence worked twenty years for the Russians, the #2 guy worked twenty years for the Chinese, his assistant assisted him (and the two spies for China walked), and the whole Boston Field Office went over to the freaking Mafia and used to tip them about informers so the informers could be whacked.
This stuff never used to happen to Robert Stack or Efrem Zimbalist Jr...
d.o.l.
Criminal Number 18F
Great idea. Except not just border patrol---have them handle "hunting down illegal immigrants" INSIDE the country, too. They have just the right attitude needed for the job--"guilty until proven innocent".
Well this is why I buy all my handguns in DC. slightly used but cheaper. Some times they need work. Nobody ever even asks me to fill out a form.
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