Posted on 08/16/2005 7:13:40 AM PDT by Brigadier
``We set out to establish a democracy, but we're slowly realizing we will have some form of Islamic republic,'' said another US official familiar with policymaking from the beginning.
(Excerpt) Read more at thestandard.com.hk ...
Tell that to the relatives of the 300,000 plus Iraqis found in mass grave all around the country (including women and children shot point blank), gassed Kurds of Khalabja, people fed feet first into plastic chippers and acid tubs, torture chamber victims or women gang-raped by Saddam thugs. What planet are you from. Ah, whatever.
You're still ignoring the fact that present day Iraqis are right now calling themselves "Iraqi", and referring to their country as "my country".
You are being uncharacteristically dense in ignoring this. You insist that the Iraqis view themselves as members of the Caliphate, and that the majority want to rebuild the Caliphates of old. You consistently ignore the fact that the Iraqis are generally tired of oppression, tired of mass murder, and tired of dictators.
You insist that there is no nationalism in Iraq, and I've repeatedly given you examples of Iraqis exhibiting behavior that can only be termed as nationalistic. Your assumption is that Islam has somehow subverted the basic human nature of 25 million Iraqis, thereby making them incapable of seeing themselves as a nation of people, incapable of Democracy, and incapable of peaceful coexistence with others. You've claimed all of this in one form or another, and ignore all evidence to the contrary. That less than 1 percent of 1 percent of Iraqis are participating in the terrorist violence isn't enough for you to see that over 99% of the country is not participating in the terrorism. That a majority condemn the terrorism escapes you as well. You may not have noticed by Iraqis even call the foreign terrorists who enter into their country, trespassers, and "foreign fighters". Some have even referred to the foreign fighters as "invaders".
Like I've said, nationalism in Iraq is strong. We don't have to build it up for them, they already have it. We only have to stay there long enough for them to get a hold of their domestic security, and then we're out of there, and they'll be able to hold it together after that. The civil war that people talk about happening in the event that we leave too soon isn't like a war of secession, which is what we Americans went through. No, the civil war people talk about in regards to Iraq, in a worst case scenario, is one of who will rule the country of Iraq, not that of secession.
Some days I believe we have just as many "Facts mess up my agenda" posters as DU does.
"They did not have Fundamentalist terrorists running through their streets killing innocent men , women and children.They had electricity,fuel and jobs ."
The government was killing them instead. Electricity,fuel and jobs were only in selective sunni areas (20% of the population). The shia's in the southe lived in terrible peverty and the Kurds had relative prosperity despite Saddam and due to the relative autonomy they enjoyed thanks to US protection. Please don't substitute facts with slogans.
peverty=poverty
LOL.... it's only 10:40 am here so the beer thing really isn't happening for me yet.
"How so? Please explain how the Bush daughters enlistment would turn this into a "VERY worthy cause"?
"It would show how important the father thinks it is that He encouraged HIS daughters for such a worthy cause ."
???? once again, how does it make it a worthy cause? Since you seem to value hypothetical situations, what if Bush had no children to send? Could it ever have been a worthy cause without a Bush facing direct danger?
"I have a feeling if Clinton was still in office you would agree with me that Chelsea should volunteer."
Actually, wrt the last statement ..... no, when Clinton started the Bosnian thing I was against it as not in the USA's interest. Chelsea's military service had no bearing.
You may consider not "having feelings" about what I would agree with.
"I was most likely a conservative before you were born.
Perhaps. What made you leave conservatism?"
ROFL!
touche!
So I am.
But the gang & I'll be bustin out soon, and there'll be heck to pay.
When Sadam was in power, we were not spending $4 Billion Dollars a month on a losing war. Yes, we are losing this war. For the cost of this war, we could have build 100 nuclear plants, that would have at least reduced the cost of energy.
Proof? Evidence?
Ansd let Saddam build a 100 nuclear bombs.
"The people of Iraq were better off with Saddam than they will be under this "new democracy". "
I don't give a $#!T how great Saddam was for the Iraqi people. He was a danger to Americans, so we bombed Iraq and throw their leaders out on their asses.
The Iraqi don't have a great western life style and probably never will. But that doesn't mean we can't protect ourselves from their rotten leaders (Saddam).
It's sure looking like it. That being said, we tried it the 'nice' way. What will it take to make the US and western allies try to 'bad' way?
Would we be "winning" if our soldiers were strapping bombs to themselves and blowing up innocents?
It seems your idea of winning is bombing school children and police stations for the cameras.
And you will have to talk to your buddies on the left for preventing the building of nuke plants for the last 20 years.
That is what I said. My statement that it is a theory is a statement that there is no proof?
If you believe it is not just a theory, perhaps you can provide the evidence.
Thank you for your post. It needed to be said.
Sharia is mullah rule (or mullah interpretation of Allah's wishes). Since sharia is the merger of mosque and state, how can that fit with even the most miserable definition of democracy. Under sharia there is no freedom and no human rights since the Quran controls ever detail of daily living.
Do you really have to read any further than this?
It should read Yet Another Anonymous Source (YAAS) who is Some Sort of Administration Official Who Could Be Anybody in the Government ...
Enough of the WP.
Why are you so upset about this anyway? Doesn't He have everythign under control, with no possibility of anything happening that He doesn't will?
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