Plane may have been hijacked (GREECE)

news24.com ^ | 8/14/05 | N/A

[Gorons]

Athens - A Cypriot Boeing 737 airliner with 121 people on board from Larnaca, Cyprus, crashed apparently pilotless on Sunday near Athens, a traffic controller at Athens international airport told AFP.

Just before the crash, airforce crew observed the airline's pilots doubled up in the cabin, the controller said.

A spokesperson for the Greek army chief-of-staff said hijacking "could not be ruled out".

"An act of piracy is likely," said the spokesperson, Gerassimos Kalpoyannakis. The pilots of the two F16 fighters that were sent up to escort the airliner before the crash "saw a situation that was not normal in the pilots' cabin."

Kalpoyannakis said the plane crashed at Varnava, an uninhabited area about 40 kilometres northeast of Athens and not on the Euboea peninsula as previously reported by the Athens control tower.

He said teams of rescue workers, fire-fighters and ambulances were on their way to the scene and that all the hospitals in the region had been placed on emergency status.

There was no immediate word on casualties.

"The plane has crashed," said Iannis Pantazatos, who was in charge of the Athens airport control tower. "The information was given to us by the air force, which sent two fighters to escort the aircraft."

Shortly before the plane crashed, Pantazatos told AFP: "The airport lost all contact with the plane, which should have landed in the late morning, and two air force planes sent up in reconnaissance found it flying above the Euboea peninsula, but they saw the pilots doubled up in the cabin."

"We do not know how the plane is flying. It is being escorted by the military planes and the airport is in a state of emergency." he said.

The Helios airways plane was reported to be carrying 115 passengers and six crew.

Helios, established in 1999, is the first private airline in Cyprus. It had a fleet of four Boeing 737 jets and operated flights to London, Athens, Sofia, Dublin and Strasbourg in France.

[Rokke]

"BY MY RECKONING."

Well, as a point of fact, your reckoning does not serve you well. Your "reckoning" may tell you clouds are made out of cotton candy, and you may even choose to believe that, but that doesn't make it so. I "choose" to believe in facts when they are available, and one fact is that only about 5% of airline accidents are caused by acts of sabotage (including terrorism). That means 95% are not. Therefore, a VAST majority of airline accidents are not caused by Islamonut terrorists. Frankly, they just aren't that smart or effective to turn the numbers in their favor. If you choose to believe that they are, then at least as far as your reckoning is concerned, the terrorists are winning.

[johnb838]

If he was frozen, how was he texting?

[billbears]

Well the first place I'd bother looking is the NTSB's website. But in 2000 alone, there were at least 12 reported by the NTSB. I bet those were actually terrorist actions we just didn't know about huh?

If this plane crash REALLY was caused by a mechanical failure that wasn't Islamic-induced, it would be a TINY EXCEPTION to a VASTLY SUPERIOR RULE.

Really? How many of these 'Islamic-induced' crashes are there? I realize the three in 2001 but I just don't know about the dozens upon dozens that aren't a 'tiny exception to a vastly superior rule'. You know, I bet a few years ago some Islamic group put a piece of tire out on the runway for the Concorde to run into too huh? That's just like them 'sneaky Islamics'....And the plane in Toronto? Slid off the runway? I bet the Islamics went out there and pulled oil on the runway to make the airliner skid off...

Really, some of you need to quit looking for 'Islamics' behind every door. Airplane accidents happen. Some years it's bad, some it's better. But the first thing I think about when a plane crashes is not how the 'rabid Islamic lunatics' could be behind it

[eleni121]

From Flight International.com:


"Numerous pilots who have commented on the accident confess to being perplexed over the possible on-board sequence.

The fact that the passengers’ oxygen masks deployed – an automatic process – appears to imply that the pilots should have received aural and visual warnings that there was a problem with the cabin altitude.

The pilots’ drill would call for them to don immediately their own oxygen equipment – which is entirely separate from the cabin system – before attempting to diagnose the problem and descending to around 10,000ft where the air would be breathable again.

The absence of the captain from the cockpit, allied to the content of the passenger’s text message, has led to speculation that the captain entered the cabin to investigate what was happening and then lost consciousness. If the first officer had not put on his own mask then he too would have fallen unconscious.

But it remains unclear what fault or faults would have caused the lack of pressurisation in the first place. The fighter pilots are not reported to have mentioned any physical damage to the aircraft that would cause a loss of cabin air.

---

Given this conundrum expressed by pilots, I am not convinced that it was a technical catastrophe.

[OneTime]

To: nuconvert; Boundless; mewzilla
MEANWHILE......MEANWHILE.......MEANWHILE........MEANWHILE........MEANWHILE.....
Meanwhile, police in northern Greece arrested a man Monday who had claimed to have received a telephone text message from a passenger on board a Cypriot airliner which crashed north of Athens, killing 121 people. Police identified the man as Nektarios-Sotirios Voutas, 32. He had told Greek television stations after the Helios Airways crash Sunday that his cousin on board the plane sent him a cell-phone text message minutes before the crash saying: "Farewell, cousin, here we're frozen." Authorities said Monday they had determined he was lying, and his cousin's name was not on the Cypriot government's official list of victims.


4 posted on 08/15/2005 12:29:29 PM PDT by maestro


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1463056/posts?page=204#204

[OneTime]

oops... wrong link.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1463838/posts

[Rokke]

"Numerous pilots who have commented on the accident confess to being perplexed over the possible on-board sequence."

I'll assume you drive a car. Have you ever seen or read about a car accident which caused you to scratch your head and wonder how in the world that could have happened. Now imagine a car that is many many times more complex than anything you've ever driven, operating in an environment that is far more dynamic than any road. Do you really think it is that hard to understand why "numerous pilots confess to being perplexed over the possible on-board sequence"? And do you really believe the fact that they are "perplexed" implies there was something sinister that happened on that flight? If so, then you must logically believe that a lot of unexplained automobile accidents are caused by intentional sabotage. Just a suggestion, but go with your previous thought, which is to wait until the accident investigation is published.

[Eaker]

Ping for later.

[eleni121]

Comparing apples and oranges with your analogy.

Actually travel by air is far safer than automobile transportation.

For these pilots to be "perplexed" means that there are serious unanswered questions...so terrorist/criminal causes cannot be ruled out until a full report is done.

[Spunky]

"He had told Greek television stations after the Helios Airways crash Sunday that his cousin on board the plane sent him a cell-phone text message minutes before the crash saying: "Farewell, cousin, here we're frozen." Authorities said Monday they had determined he was lying, and his cousin's name was not on the Cypriot government's official list of victims."

Even if the text message was a hoax, how did he know that is exactly what had happened unless he called the media after the knowledge was already known.

I heard a news update where they said passengers on other flights had said there was problems with the air conditioning.

[Rokke]

"Comparing apples and oranges with your analogy."

Just trying to put things into a perspective you might understand since you clearly are not familiar the commercial aviation environment. Maybe it would help if you considered the recent accident in Toronto. Pilots were "perplexed" about the sequence of events there too. Nothing earth shattering about that, and it certainly doesn't imply there was anything sinister involved in that accident. The simple fact is, there are always "serious unanswered questions" at the start of an accident investigation. This latest mishap in Greece is no different. Therefore.....as we both agree, it is better not to draw any conclusions until a full report is done.

[Gunrunner2]

>>Pilots are trained to radio for help when needed.<<

Trained to aviate first. Calling on the radio is about the last thing you do when faced with an emergency.

That means they handle the problem by first flying the jet, analyzing the problem, then taking corrective action, and only then do they communicate.

Why? Because all ATC can do for you when you have a problem in the jet. . .mechanical or otherwise. . .is play the cheerleader, going "rah-rah" from the sidelines but not calling the plays or getting bloody on the field. ATC can't fly the jet or, as you suspect, stop some guy from taking over the jet.

(Not denigrating ATC, mind you)

>>This whole thing stinks.<<

All mishaps do.

[Gunrunner2]

Adding my thanks to COEXERJ145 as well.

[Gunrunner2]

You two guys are a hoot!

Thanks for the laughs.

[Gunrunner2]

Not much chance of that with me getting up every 5 min to pee. (Now, if First Class would ever get those in-seat toilets working. . .I'd be set!)

[Gunrunner2]

Calm down.

This is SOP in a mishap.

First thing you do in a mishap investigation is collect (seize) all related ops and maintenance documents. You grab any and all records related to the aircraft and aircrew.

No big deal.

[Gunrunner2]

>>But the first thing I think about when a plane crashes is not how the 'rabid Islamic lunatics' could be behind it<<

First thing I think and ask about is survivors.

BTW: excellent post.

[Rokke]

I'm in the middle of some incredibly boring computer based training right now. Fortunately, I've discovered I can have the training program running while I surf the net. I just completed a 45 minute lesson on the dangers of taking illegal narcotics and flying. I'm not completely unconvinced that computer based training isn't more harmful to your mental condition than illegal narcotics. I'll just stay away from both and avoid the resulting mind rot. FreeRepublic is far more beneficial to your health.

[Gunrunner2]

>>"Numerous pilots who have commented on the accident confess to being perplexed over the possible on-board sequence. <<


All pilots on this thread are also perplexed, but that doesn't mean just because we are perplexed it must mean a terrorist attack

No way are we going to make that leap.

We base our opinion on experience, experience gleaned from years of flying and years of being around when brother pilots packed it in for God-knows-what-reason.

While we initially may consider ourselves immortal and incapable of committing errors (Hollywood has that part right), after our first tour and the harsh lesson's learned, in our hearts we now know we can make mistakes and there are situations/emergencies that even the best pilots can't fly their way out of.

When a mishap occurs the first thing we want to do is blame something besides the pilot. However, truth be known, mishaps due to mechanical flaws are rare (about 15% if I recall correctly from Univ. of Southern California Flight Safety & Systems Management training), and virtually the rest are pilot error.

Bottom line, we are holding back from passing judgment on the cause because we know the world of aviation, we know what happens in a mishap sequence, and we know initial reports from "witnesses" and untrained first responders and by-standers are notoriously unreliable. Heck, most people can't tell you why an aircraft flies, let alone what may have contributed to a mishap.

We KNOW mishaps are confusing, emotional, irrational (in our mind), and each mishap is perplexing because a) we knew the pilot/aircrew were trained and certified and are perplexed as to why it happened to such a good pilot/aircrew, and/or b) how could such-and-such a system (or system of systems) fail? Never or rarely happened before.

Look, it's not hard to understand that things break, often at the wrong time and for no apparent reason. I'll bet you've had a car that broke-down for no obvious reason, from a failure of a part that isn't supposed to break/fail, and as you stand on the side of the road, trained mechanic or not, you are perplexed as to why and why now.

Rant off/

[Gunrunner2]

Please see post 219.