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The pride of 'people without a country'
HERALD NEWS ^ | August 8, 2005 | MAYA KREMEN

Posted on 08/08/2005 3:39:35 PM PDT by jb6

PASSAIC - There are few Lemkos left, and even fewer who speak their original Slavic dialect.

Most of those who do remember have gray hair. But over dill chicken soup in the meeting room of Saints Peter and Paul Russian Orthodox Cathedral on Sunday morning, the dozen or so members of the Lemko Association agreed on one thing:

They were proud to be Lemkos, even if they always have to explain themselves.

"We're a people without a country," said Maryann Bacsik, 53, of Little Falls, whose grandfather came here from Eastern Europe in 1907. "Many people my age have no idea what their nationality is."

The Lemkos are a Russian Orthodox minority who lived in the Carpathian Mountains, which run through what is now Ukraine, Poland, Romania and Slovakia. Their people were persecuted during World War I by the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and again in 1947, when they were displaced after the Soviet Communists took over Poland. Although estimates on the number of Lemkos remaining differ, about 60,000 are said to live in Poland today.

On Sunday, the members came together in Passaic to commemorate relatives who died during World War I. At the Divine Liturgy service, candles burned and the Rev. Andrey Kovalev said a blessing in honor of these victims of years ago.

Afterward, over a hearty lunch, a few members spoke about the cruel ways their relatives were treated.

Alex Heranchak's grandmother was shot because the Roman Catholic Hapsburg dynasty ruling the Austro-Hungarian Empire suppressed the Russian Orthodox. Mary Dubowchik said her grandfather was interned for months in a camp in Graz, now a part of Austria.

At one time, there were more than 10,000 Lemko Association members throughout the United States who would attend such commemorations. Now, only a few hundred are left.

Still, the remaining members of the American diaspora continue to celebrate their heritage. Some grew up thinking they were Russian or Czech. They later traced their roots to the mountains and learned about the dialect and the culture. Some, like Larry Garrahan, 69, made trips to the home villages of their Lemko forebears.

"I wanted the sense of knowing about my ancestors," he said. "I walked on the dirt streets my grandparents walked on."

Victoria Windish, 76, the Lemko Association's treasurer, was told as a girl that the Lemkos' dialect was "low Russian."

Now she calls it po naszomu - "our language." When she said the words, even the non-Lemko speakers in the room laughed. Everyone understood.

E-mail: kremenm@northjersey.com


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Russia
KEYWORDS: austria; austrian; catholic; lemka; lemkos; orthodox; passaic; poland; russia; russianorthodox
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To: nbenyo

Lots of interests wanted to confuse the identity of these millions of immigrants of the early 1900's.

However, your grandparents culture was very Lemko/Ukrainian right down to the Easter and Christmas traditions - easter eggs, babka, horseradish and beets, caroling.

Can you imagine how the political landscape would change were the Irish talked into forgetting their identity?


21 posted on 08/08/2005 6:14:25 PM PDT by spanalot
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To: nbenyo

"Carpatho-Rusyns from Slovakia (like my paternal grandparents) never use the term "Lemko" to refer to themselves."

Actually, Lemkos at one time settled well south of slovakia into Yugoslavia and Bulgaria.

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:etAhX-jTCTUJ:www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/pages/L/E/Lemkoregion.htm+lemko+villages++in+slovakia&hl=en&ie=UTF-8


22 posted on 08/08/2005 6:16:41 PM PDT by spanalot
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To: spanalot

They never forgot their identity. They never considered themselves Lemkos. That term was not used in their villages.
To them, "Lemko Hall" and "Lemko Park" was for people from Poland.
Sounds like you'd like to force your terms on them!


23 posted on 08/08/2005 6:25:32 PM PDT by nbenyo
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To: nbenyo

You obviously miss the point.

Ever hear of divide and conquer?


24 posted on 08/08/2005 6:29:37 PM PDT by spanalot
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To: spanalot

So this peasant is out tilling his field, and a sudden a soldier rides by on horseback, and says, "Have you heard? The border has changed! We're part of Poland now!"

And the peasant says, "Thank heavens! I couldn't stand another of those Russian winters!"


25 posted on 08/08/2005 6:39:28 PM PDT by Piranha
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To: spanalot
Then why did they wind up in Muscovy churches?

Because before XIX century are Ruthenians/Ruses/Russians had common although diverse identity. Separatist Ukrainian identity is a XIX c invention rooted in Austria ruled Lvov area. BTW, most of Ukrainian Christians are in the "Muscovy church" as well.

And why is Lemko most similar to Ukrainian?

Because they are closely related.

26 posted on 08/08/2005 6:45:20 PM PDT by A. Pole (Mandarin Meng-tzu: "The duty of the ruler is to ensure the prosperous livelihood of his subjects.")
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To: spanalot

Because the Ukrainian church is part of the Russian Orthodox Church. They never said they were Russian or for that matter Ukrainian, if anything they are closer to Poles or Moldavians then Ruthians or Rus.


27 posted on 08/08/2005 6:47:20 PM PDT by jb6 ( Free Haghai Sophia! Crusade!)
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To: spanalot
This article documents the success of the Russian church in dissolving the cultural identity of a significant segment of Ukrainians.

It is projecting present or desired future into the past. The separate "cultural identity" of Ukrainians was not being disolved but was being created. Further into past you go the closer are the all branches of Rus.

28 posted on 08/08/2005 6:47:55 PM PDT by A. Pole (Mandarin Meng-tzu: "The duty of the ruler is to ensure the prosperous livelihood of his subjects.")
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To: A. Pole
I think that people in the film Deer Hunter are Lemkos.

Correct. The church you see in the movie and the Lemko Hall are located in Cleveland OH.

29 posted on 08/08/2005 7:25:56 PM PDT by Feldkurat_Katz (What no women’s magazine ever offers to improve is women’s minds - Taki)
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To: spanalot
Notwithstanding all the smoke and mirrors, they are one in the same - both a subset of Ukrainian

One recognizable trait of the Lemko dialect is that the stress is on the penultimate syllable, like in Polish.

30 posted on 08/08/2005 7:38:42 PM PDT by Feldkurat_Katz (What no women’s magazine ever offers to improve is women’s minds - Taki)
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To: spanalot
However, your grandparents culture was very Lemko/Ukrainian right down to the Easter and Christmas traditions - easter eggs, babka, horseradish and beets, caroling.

Sound very much like the POLISH traditions of my paternal ancestors. Do Ukranians go from door to door on Three Kings Day too, and have the priest bless the house?

31 posted on 08/08/2005 8:55:17 PM PDT by Clemenza (Intelligent Design Isn't Very Intelligent)
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To: A. Pole

"Separatist Ukrainian identity is a XIX c invention "

Ever hear of the Zaphorosti Cossacks of 3 centuries prior?

Urkainian identity as a Autrian invention is laughable - did they clone Shevchenko?


32 posted on 08/09/2005 5:11:18 AM PDT by spanalot
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To: jb6

"Ukrainian church is part of the Russian Orthodox Church"

Wrong - the Lemko Churches and the Ukrainian Churches predate Muscovy - Kyiv was a "City of a Thousand Churches " when Moscow was still a podunk fur trading hamlet.


33 posted on 08/09/2005 5:13:30 AM PDT by spanalot
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To: Feldkurat_Katz

"One recognizable trait of the Lemko dialect is that the stress is on the penultimate syllable, like in Polish."

You also get this in other Ukrainian dialects - hutsul and boyko.

And of course the sine quo non of Lemko language is use of the word "lem" . Lvov was once called lemburg.


34 posted on 08/09/2005 5:16:18 AM PDT by spanalot
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To: Clemenza

"Do Ukranians go from door to door on Three Kings Day too, and have the priest bless the house?"

Yes


35 posted on 08/09/2005 5:17:29 AM PDT by spanalot
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To: spanalot
Ever hear of the Zaphorosti Cossacks of 3 centuries prior?

Have you heard about zasciankowa szlachta in Poland, or about gorale podhalanscy or Kurpiowie? They are all distinct groups/societies yet they are Polish. Have you heard about Mew England Yankees? Or Scotch-Irish of Appalachia? Aten't they American?

Ukrainian identity as a Autrian invention is laughable - did they clone Shevchenko?

I said separatist (anit-Russian/Austrian invented) identity/ideology. Of cource there are several distinct ethnic groups on Ukraine. Same with greater Russia - she also has local and diverse subgrops, subcultures and dialects.

And yes XIXc Taras Shevchenko was a Ukrainian poet who made the great contribution to the rise of separate Ukrainian identity. He is a good illustration that it was XIX century thing.

36 posted on 08/09/2005 5:44:58 AM PDT by A. Pole (Mandarin Meng-tzu: "The duty of the ruler is to ensure the prosperous livelihood of his subjects.")
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To: spanalot; ValenB4; anonymoussierra; Freelance Warrior; kedr; Sober 4 Today; BrooklynGOP; ...
Wrong - the Lemko Churches and the Ukrainian Churches predate Muscovy - Kyiv was a "City of a Thousand Churches " when Moscow was still a podunk fur trading hamlet.

You really don't know anything do you? Gads man, besides hatred you've got a slight inclining of knowledge that your blind hatred twists and leaves out all the prudent facts that then make you look as stupid as you come across.

Get this Hate Boy, the Metropolitan See of Kiev transferred to Moscow in the 1400s after Kiev was annexed by Lithuania. It was supposed to go 150km further EAST to Vladimer but the Metropolitan went where the new Rus power center was: Moscow.

Try learning at least a bit before openning your trap.

37 posted on 08/09/2005 6:16:25 AM PDT by jb6 ( Free Haghai Sophia! Crusade!)
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To: spanalot

you have to understand that both jb6 and a. *ole hate ukrainian independance so much that they just make up history to cover it all up.

they want you to believe that ukraine never existed, therefore it should be part of russia.

that kind of arrogance and ignorance doesnt get them very far around here.

They HATE the fact that ukraine doesnt want to be part of russia and that it broke away.


38 posted on 08/09/2005 12:06:21 PM PDT by KOZ.
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To: spanalot
Get this Hate Boy

see what i mean? go up against madder rasha, and you'll get smeared by them.

39 posted on 08/09/2005 12:08:22 PM PDT by KOZ.
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To: A. Pole

"He is a good illustration that it was XIX century thing."

What is your point if not the derision of a free Ukraine becuase it is only "a 19th century thing."

That's like saying Poland is a 1918 thing.


40 posted on 08/09/2005 1:44:33 PM PDT by spanalot
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