Vanity-PHOTOGRAPHY BUFFS - Freeper needs advice

Me | 8/7/2005 | 6ppc

[6ppc]

My son has signed up for a photography class and I need to buy a 35mm SLR camera capable of manual operation.

My limited experience with 35mm photograph was a Pentax Spotmatic F I owned in the 70's and 80's. It was an excellent camera, but is no longer alive.

I want to buy him a good quality camera and have been shopping on Ebay, but really do not know enough about 35mm SLR cameras to know which ones are the best buys. I was hoping some freepers could clue me in on which of the following cameras are good/better/best etc.

Requirements include through the lens metering and ability to operate in manual mode. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Here are some examples of the brands and models I'm considering:
Canon AE-1
Canon A-1
Canon EOS 650
Canon EOS A2E
Canon T-70
Canon EOS Rebel
Nikon N-70
Nikon Nikomat
Nikon N-80
Nikon FM
Pentax K1000
Pentax SF1
Olympus OM-1
Olympus OMG
Olympus OM-2N MD
Minolta Maxxum 7000
Minolta Maxxum 450si
Minolta XG-se
Minolta SRT MC-11
Minolta XG-A
Minolta Maxxum 4
Minolta Maxxum 5
Minolta X-700

[6ppc]

Nonetheless, to get something comparable in visual quality to Film you need to spend ~$1,000 for a Canon or Nikon digital.

I've been drooling over the 8 megapixel cams. I have a friend who owns the Canon. I just can't spend the money right now.

I jumped on gorush's offer for the Nikon. Even if digital is the wave of the future, my son will gain valuable experience by learning to compose pictures and by doing his own developing in a darkroom...I wish I had taken some photograph classes when I was his age.

[upchuck]

You're getting a FE2 for free? WOW!

I have a FE2. Great camera. Bought it circa 1984 or 5. Have taken thousands of photos with it. Sturdy and reliable.

For lenses, I have two zooms; 35-80 and 80-210. And an extension tube to double that. Of course the extension tube does require more light but it's cheaper than more lenses.

Great camera! You won't be disappointed.

[mercy]

Hey gorush. That was really nice of you. Way to go.

What lenses is 6ppc getting if I may ask?

[pageonetoo]

Having taught a photography class back in the 70's and 80's, I can recommend the K1000 (or similar), more than most. It is more of a manual camera. Most of those on your list defy the ability to set shutter speed, lens aperture, and keep control of the process. They are AUTOMATIC point and shooters.

If he is interested in learning to take pictures, keep it automatic, but, if the interest is in the mechanics of HOW a picture is taken, then manual cameras are the only choice. A built-in meter helps, even a match needle type, but a Gossen Light Meter leads to a lot of discovery..

I have a Canon EOS Elan 7e system, now, with five choices of lens. I have kept up with the current digital things, and also have a Canon 8 megapixel Digital Rebel XT, which uses those lenses.

The most important things about photography are best learned on a manual 35mm camera. With it, you learn about light, and depth-of-field, which are two of the most important aspects... Now, I take pictures, and allow the camera to be concerned with the mechanics, but my cameras can be run manually, as well!

That's my $ .02, good luck!

[DoctorMichael]

".........Right now film cameras will equal or better all but the very best digitals at a tiny fraction of the cost........."

I agree completely!

[Andy'smom]

A Pentax K100 is the classic student camera. Mine is 25 years old and never been serviced. You can find them on Ebay but try to get one of the older ones 'cause the newer ones were made in China with plastic parts.

[finnman69]

Nikon FM

simple, reliable, basic, capable of taking fabuluous photos

i've taken thousands of pics with my FM and complemented it with very good quality Nikor lenses.

end of story

[ValerieUSA]

Composition is more easliy learned with digital cameras - you experiment more, and can produce many comparison shots of the same subject. Film processing costs are intimidating, and a 24 shot roll is a limitation compared to a card that can hold 200 photos.

I learned actual hands-on cut and paste methods for putting together a newspaper ... an archaic skill now. Same goes for film processing unless you are into large format... which is definitely not for beginners.

Look to the future.

[pageonetoo]

... Maybe for the long run, but learning to properly compose photos will be good for my son

Get him a b&W darkroom set-up, as well. It's funnnnnnnnnn, and eeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzeeeeee!

[6ppc]

Get him a b&W darkroom set-up, as well.

If he becomes serious about it, I will.

[19th LA Inf]

We got our daughter a Nikon FM for high school graduation in 1982 and it's still going strong. She bought a second matching body a couple of years ago. You're right, a simple camera will teach what you need to know.

I have a couple of Pentax ME bodies myself which date to about 1978 and they too are still clicking, so to speak. I would advise buying from a reputable camera dealer rather than on Ebay as there a lot of things that *could* be wrong with a used camera. Even then one should be sure that "return" privileges are extended in case of problems.

My daughter got a zoom lens smashed in airline baggage, so I went out to get a replacement from one of the local big stores. The salesman told me that lens was "no longer available", but the manager, a sort of Middle Eastern looking fellow, overheard and sensed a sale slipping away. In nothing flat he grabbed a new camera out of the case and popped the lens off and sold it to me at a decent price. That's the kind of place to look for older stuff.

[mercy]

Yes but,

The basics are still important. Many of the photoshop terms are taken from very old photographic processes. Like unsharp mask. Understanding the foundations is important.

Besides he'll be developing his own film and I'm pretty sure the school pays for the chemicals.

An analogy would be perhaps with computers. Lots of kids these days know many computer software programs but those who can program are light years ahead.

[tuvals]

Scan this site and you may get some ideas. I am using a Minolta Maxum 7000 and it is a great camera.

http://www.consumersearch.com/www/photo_and_video/35mm-camera-reviews/reviews.html

[glasseye]

AE-1

[finnman69]

He said he needed a MANUAL SLR 35MM for his class, not a digital. And I disagree about learning composition using digital.

Learning to use the viewfinder while adjusting f-stops and shuuter speed is not something you can do in the same manner with a digital, unless you buy a very high end Nikon Digital SLR.

[MississippiMan]

One of my kids took a college photography course with exactly the same camera requirement. I went with an old Canon AE-1 from eBay and it worked out beautifully. There truly is no need to spend a ton of money for slick features on this, BTW, since the focus (unavoidable pun) of the class will almost certainly be on technique and the artistics of it, for which a good solid SLR will do just as well as the latest and greatest. Maybe even better.

If they do well and the photography latches on as a long term interest for them, you can start looking toward a digital SLR for them in the future. :-)

MM

[gorush]

Tokina 28mm w/ polarizer, Nippon Nikor H 50mm, Vivitar 75-205mm zoom, Five star 500mm zoom, 3 extension tubes, 36, 18 an 11mm.

[NerdDad]

I just bought a Minolta XG-1. Came with 3 lenses and metal, foam lined case. One of the lenses doesn't fit the camera. Paid $100 for it. I'm still learning and loving it.

[ValerieUSA]

I know that's what he said.
A class in digital photography would be more useful.
You don't get a model T to take a driving course these days.

[mercy]

Digital vs Film:

The minimal dslr that could be considered a real camera for making 'art' would be the Nikon D50 or the Canon 300D. Around $1k with a so so lens.

I say this because of sensor size. These sensors are 60% the size of 35 mm film and one can make an 8 x 10 print with one that is acceptable. The next step up in cameras is about a four fold cost factor. Those sensors are still only 60% the size of 35mm film.

Next step up is the Canon 1Ds II with a full frame sensor and it's $8k for the body alone. You might be able to make a sharp 16 x 20 print with one if you were willing to sacrifice fine detail like grass and leaves.

It is not just about pixels. The more pixels you cram into a sensor the lower the quality of the image. This is why most digicams are toys. Their sensors are smaller than your little fingernail. Worthless for anything but snapshots.

The next step above full frame digital cameras is the medium format backs. The only one that is near the same size of a medium format film gate (57mm x 42mm is $30k. Out of the question but for the most famous fashion and product photgs or multi millionaires.

So, for amateur photogs, and that's most of us, that are serious about our images .... film is far far from dead.