Vanity-PHOTOGRAPHY BUFFS - Freeper needs advice

Me | 8/7/2005 | 6ppc

[6ppc]

My son has signed up for a photography class and I need to buy a 35mm SLR camera capable of manual operation.

My limited experience with 35mm photograph was a Pentax Spotmatic F I owned in the 70's and 80's. It was an excellent camera, but is no longer alive.

I want to buy him a good quality camera and have been shopping on Ebay, but really do not know enough about 35mm SLR cameras to know which ones are the best buys. I was hoping some freepers could clue me in on which of the following cameras are good/better/best etc.

Requirements include through the lens metering and ability to operate in manual mode. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Here are some examples of the brands and models I'm considering:
Canon AE-1
Canon A-1
Canon EOS 650
Canon EOS A2E
Canon T-70
Canon EOS Rebel
Nikon N-70
Nikon Nikomat
Nikon N-80
Nikon FM
Pentax K1000
Pentax SF1
Olympus OM-1
Olympus OMG
Olympus OM-2N MD
Minolta Maxxum 7000
Minolta Maxxum 450si
Minolta XG-se
Minolta SRT MC-11
Minolta XG-A
Minolta Maxxum 4
Minolta Maxxum 5
Minolta X-700

[PAR35]

Unfortunately, film photography is rapidly dying. I would think about looking for lens compatability between the maker's film and digital lines, so at least you can continue to use any extra lenses that you buy. (For example, some of the Konica digitals will, I think, use Minolta lenses, but not Konica lenses).

[Quix]

Ahhhh. Shows how up on that I am! Thanks for the update.

My buddy, the obsessive professional at church uses a Nikon digital and is quite happy with it.

[PAR35]

Although an excellent camera, this series used a mercury button cell for battery power and those are no longer sold or manufactured because of environmental concerns. I would avoid any that uses a PX-625 or PX-13 mercury cell.

There are some non-mercury 3.5 volt replacements out there, but they are hard to find and pricey (and comparatively short lived - they run down over a set period of time whether they get heavy use or not.) I agree with your advice.

[MarkL]

Well, for what it's worth, the Pentax K-1000 is a terrific camera that's great for someone who's looking for manual control and focus. It's been around forever. However, Pentax also has a pair of film SLRs that add some additional features for not a whole lot more money. Both offer auto-exposure modes as well, which is quite limited on the K-1000. There the ZX-M which is a manual focus model, and the ZX-L which adds autofocus. But both are capable of full manual control as well.

Regarding the Olympus, the OM-1 is great, but you can still find the OM-2n used, and while it has all the features of the OM-1, it gives you some additional auto-exposure modes. I've still got an Olympus OM-2n, and while I haven't used it in years, it was a really terrific camera. Very compact for an SLR. And it took quite a beating. And Zuico (sp?) lenses are really terrific, although they're pretty expensive. But they rival the best Nikor and Canon lenses for quality. And they tend to be extremely fast (which is why they tend to be more expensive). IIRC, my 50mm lens is a f:1.2

As for the Nikons, the FM-10 is another great camera, and again, you're looking at a manual focus model. I used to have a Nikon FM-2 (now replaced by the FM-3), which was a completely mechanical camera. It worked at all shutter speeds without batteries! But then I was in the habit of carrying around an incident light meter with me at all times.

I guess what I'm saying is that while it's great having a film camera with full manual controls, sometimes it's nice to have some automation as well. If the student plans on keeping the camera past the class, this might be an important consideration.

Mark

[Mad Mammoth]

I may be a bit late to this party, but I would suggest the Pentax K1000, which you would find comparable to your old Spotmatic.

I had a Mamiya/Sekor 1000DTL in the early 70s and it was a nice SLR, they might be hard to find at this point, if you can find a good Nikon or Nikkormat they're not bad choices either.

If you should come across a Minolta SRT-101, they are a good catch, ditto for early Konica Autoreflex 'T' and 'A' models.

But if the Pentax K1000 you mentioned is in good shape and a reasonable price, I'd grab that up.

[Morgan in Denver]

Actually, I think I saw one advertised in the Denver paper. Nikon provides more information at http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php?cat=1&grp=2&productNr=25218 if you want to see it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the other camera manufacturers are, or will, make digital cameras that will use their various lenses as well.

[MarkL]

Yes. He will be using black and white film and learning how to develop in a darkroom. I hope it will become a serious pursuit for him.

I actually enjoyed doing the lab work more than taking the pictures! Unfortunately, Kodak just announced that they're getting out of the B&W photographic paper buisness, but I believe you can still get Agfa, Ilford, and many others as well.

The wide variety of what you can do in the lab is really stunning. I loved using "alternative" chemistries as well. For instance, I used Kodak Tri-X Pan 400 speed film, but regularly shot it at 3200 or 6400 speed (3 or 4 stops underexposed) but used a chemistry from a company called Perfection Photographic Products, and got extremely good results, with good contrast and without alot of grain, which you would normally get. I was doing alot of indoor sports photography for my college paper, and couldn't use a flash.

It was a blast.

Mark

[sd-joe]

It looks like he has the line looped around his leg. If so, he won't be bored for long. :)

[MarkL]

I'm with you on the Olys, mine are usually covered with frog spit and bird poop, but they just keep on shooting.

Somewhere in my basement, I've got an OM-2n, and I'm not really sure how many times I used it for shooting football and lacrosse games in driving rain and snow. It just kept on going and going...

I haven't even seen the camera in ... wow, it must be at least 13 years... Since I moved into my house.

Mark

[MarkL]

I never went anywhere without my Sekonic incident light meter (I think it was the 398, but it's been so many years, I can't remember for sure) - (OK, I mean when I was out with my camera!). I really liked the TTL metering that my Olympus OM-2n had, but when I was using my Nikon FM-2, it didn't seem to be as accurate. But with the handheld light meter, there was never any question of the accuracy of the metering. And best of all, when I had my Nikon, and the Sekonic, I never needed batteries for anything!

Mark

[MarkL]

Composition is more easliy learned with digital cameras - you experiment more, and can produce many comparison shots of the same subject. Film processing costs are intimidating, and a 24 shot roll is a limitation compared to a card that can hold 200 photos.

I disagree. This is sort of "akin" to shooting. Sure, it's fun to learn with a .22 semiauto, but when you're just beginning, you're better off with a single shot rifle... It forces you to make every shot count. Same with learning photography. When you're shooting B&W, you'll usually buy film in bulk, and load your own cannisters. It becomes very cheap to shoot, and you can load up about 40 - 45 shots per cannister! Then printing contact sheets help make you learn what makes a photo worth printing.

You can do plenty of experitmentation with exposure bracketing, depth of field experiements, and frame composition, and printing to a contact sheet is always an exciting thing to see develop. I really miss working in the lab. I loved the smell of the chemistry, or trying new things.

I learned actual hands-on cut and paste methods for putting together a newspaper ... an archaic skill now.

I know exactly what you mean! I was the photo-editor for my college newspaper, and we did paste-up, and one of my jobs, in addition to handing out the photo assignments and doing all the lab work, was halftoning the photos for duplication. You're right, it's archaic (now).

Same goes for film processing unless you are into large format... which is definitely not for beginners.

Well, try to remember that this request was all about someone who's taking a photography class, and there are certain requirements in order to take the class. I like my digital camera (a Nikon D-70s), but to be honest, I really liked my old Nikon FM-2 alot better, and I found I liked working in the lab far more than sitting in front of the computer, using Photoshop Elements.

Mark

[MarkL]

However, pixels are not just pixels. The size of the photosite on the sensor that creates the bits that inform the pixels is very important. As is the number of bits.

this is very true... My first digital camera was a Sony MVC-CD1000, which was a monster, top of the line, Sony 2.1 MP camera, that recorded directly to mini-cd. I bought it 2 years after it was discontinued, as a returned product for $350, while the original price was over $1000. Let me tell you, I got an amazing number of animal-ass photos with that camera! The joys of early digicams, with long shutter lag, and EVF blackout while shooting! Still, it took some terrific photos. Even though it was a 2.1MP camera, the picture quality rivals that of alot of 4MP cameras. I've been able to blow prints up to 8x10, and the photos look great: While there is quite a bit of grain, it looks OK. As long as you're more than about a foot away from the photo, it could be a film image. The look of the photo was really quite good.

Mark

[finnman69]

the fundamentals of photography are the same they always have been. Digital photgraphy for most is point and shoot.

To learn the fundamentals and learn discipline, a manual autofocus manual shutter setting camera is the way to learn.

Any idiot can use a digital camera.

[SlowBoat407]

Pentax K1000 was my weapon of choice when I started shooting. It's probably the least expensive one you'll find, because it's all manual. By the same token, it's pretty sturdy and reliable. I tended to run the meter a little high, though, to pop a little extra light in my shots.

[ValerieUSA]

Any idiot can use any camera. You have no point.

[finnman69]

Any idiot can use any camera. You have no point.

Actually you are completetly wrong. Most people have no idea what an f stop is, or what bracketing means, the effect of exposure, how different lenses change the composition, etc.. I am correct in stating if 6ppc's son learns the ins and outs of a manual camera he will be a far superior photgrapher.

ONe of my favorite anecdotes was when I went to a pro-camera repair shop to repair a broken SLR I had damaged. I believe this was a Nikon FM-20. I had been on a safari and round the world recently shooting thousands of slides and used the FM-20 and a F3 body in conjunction with Nikor ED lenses. Great pics, almost never had a bad photo. All manual focus.

I got into discussion with the repairman about getting an autofocus body to go with my lenses, maybe a N90 or N100 at the time. He told me about how he had NY Times photographers consdtantly bitching about the sameras with all of the bells and whistles. His point. Stick with the basics and if it's simple and takes great pictures for you, thats all you need.

Digital is fine and makes sense if you know how to take good pictures already. But the quality of the picture you take is far superior with 35mm film and a moderate priced 35mm SLR and good lenses, unless you invest in a very good (pricey) quality digital SLR and good lenses.

[TaxRelief]

How on earth did you get that photo to look 3D? Amazing!

[TaxRelief]

Get him the Canon AE-1. (That way he can take the manual shot followed by the programmable shot and compare the two...)

[MediaMole]

The instructor may require a specific model, usually the Pentax K1000 or something similar.

Otherwise, I would go with either a Nikon or Canon autofocus camera. Both systems are current, have a lot of used equipment available and have a wide range of available lenses. Any lenses in the Nikon or Canon autofocus range can be used in their digital SLR models.

Minolta and Pentax both have complete lines, but aren't used much by professionals these days. I think we are on the verge of a big shakeout in the photo industry and there is a chance that one or more of the secondary camera makers will get out of the business. Kyocera just dropped their Contax line.

Film will be a tiny niche market within a year or two.

[raybbr]

Wish I had seen that digital review site before I bought my Fuji E510. It takes crappy pics. Very fuzzy. I have tried everything including sunlight and flash and for a 5mp camera it sucks. Yet, all the reviews I read from people on other sites they say its great. I don't get it.