Posted on 08/04/2005 11:22:24 AM PDT by NormsRevenge
FARMINGVILLE, N.Y. (AP) - This middle-class Long Island community an hour from New York City and 2,000 miles from the Mexican border has become an unlikely flashpoint in the national debate over illegal immigration, with Hispanics beaten, harassed and evicted in recent weeks.
For more than a decade, immigrants from Mexico or Central America have been drawn to Long Island by the prospect of jobs. Many stand on street corners in Farmingville, waiting for contractors, landscapers and others to offer them a day's work at about $10 an hour. Then at night they go back to their illegally overcrowded single-family homes.
The immigrants, many of whom are believed to have entered the country illegally, have been source of tension among longtime residents since at least the late 1990s, but things have gotten worse this summer - so bad that the head of the Mexican Consulate in New York City said Farmingville was "clearly a red zone after the Arizona border" in the abuse of immigrants.
In late June, two men were charged with a hate crime for allegedly berating a Mexican woman and her husband as the couple backed their van out of a parking lot. Within weeks, two more suspects were arrested and accused of yelling racial epithets and throwing a beer bottle at a Hispanic day laborer.
That same day, four people demonstrating at a 7-Eleven in support of day laborers were arrested when they surrounded an anti-immigration protester's car and refused to let him out.
Police are also investigating an attack in nearby Patchogue on a 61-year-old Ecuadorean man. He was beaten by three men who supposedly asked if he had a green card.
The tension was ratcheted up in mid-June, when officials in the town of Brookhaven, which includes Farmingville, and Suffolk County police began evicting men from overcrowded houses, citing health and safety violations. Dozens of people were jammed into the tiny one-family homes.
So far, at least six houses have been shut by authorities - including three last Friday - leaving more than 100 men homeless, advocates said.
Advocates claimed the immigrants have been thrown into the streets without warning. One advocate called it "ethnic cleansing."
"Many local officials have punted, saying this is a federal issue and we can't do anything about it. Well, there are some things you can do," Suffolk County Executive Steve Levy responded. "Crack down on those contractors, crack down on illegal housing and create a better relationship with immigration officials."
Levy complained that it is the Mexican government's "failed policies, both economically and otherwise, that have been pushing millions of his residents over the border for a better life in America."
Arturo Sarukhan, head of the Mexican Consulate in New York City, agreed that Mexico needs to solve its economic problems so that its citizens do not leave for a better life in America. But he said officials on Long Island must realize that the day laborers are here to stay and "there is a need to work together."
"At the end of the day, they may or may not like it, but it is the reality," he said.
A spokeswoman for the Town of Brookhaven estimated there are 150 houses, each with dozens of suspected illegal workers, in Farmingville, though some landlords have pre-emptively evicted some tenants for fear of trouble with the law.
"If they're going to throw anybody out of an apartment, they have to give them time," said Carlos Tenorio, a 26-year-old day laborer from Mexico City who has been in Farmingville for about nine months. "These people are not the cause of the problem."
Farmingville saw immigration-related violence a few years ago. In 2000, two Mexican men were beaten by two locals who promised them work. On the Fourth of July 2003, a Mexican family barely escaped with their lives after teens set their house ablaze by shooting fireworks through a window. But tensions appeared to ease after three of the assailants were sent to prison - two of them for 25 years to life.
Residents are largely cheering the crackdown on immigrants.
"I think they are doing a terrific job," said Terry Sherwood, who complained that residents in the jammed houses often drink late into the night and urinate and defecate on lawns and backyards. "I don't care who they are, what color they are. I don't care where they come from. Why should people have to live this way?"
Lisa Marino placed a Mexican flag on her front lawn in solidarity with the workers but also applauded efforts by officials to curb illegal housing.
"There's a lack of assimilation," she said of the workers. "You don't leave garbage out, you don't whistle at neighbors. They need to understand that, but by keeping them marginalized, they don't learn that."
Nadia Marin-Molina, an advocate for the day laborers, understands the concerns expressed by neighbors, but insisted "it's a two-way street."
"Some of these same people who are complaining are the people who benefit from the work these guys do," she said. "Because every house has landscaping done, or has to have some job done on their roof, or some painting done."
Steve Levy bump.
Anti-immigration activist Dave Drew, right, speaks to a driver as residents watch while immigrant day laborers gather for a candlelight vigil and march, Thursday, July 28, 2005, in Farmingdale, N.Y. The Long Island community is polarized over the recent influx of immigrants, mostly Mexicans, who flock to the suburb seeking seasonal work. (AP Photo/Kathy Willens)
Photo by Dave Drew:http://www.daylaborers.org
But that doesn't deny the fact that there is a big demand for day laborers and that very few Americans are willing to do the day laborer jobs.
PS: In Appalachia is a six pack a normal day's wage or are you being generous because they're your friends?
Long Island is really not just a haven for the rich...most of the island is very middle income. I think the media has sold the south hamptons as emblematic of the whole islands lifestyle....it's just not true.
Actually, this part of Lawn Guyland (Farmingville) is lower middle class. Most of the South Shore and Central Suffolk is comprised of blue collar and low level white collar folk who either moved or who's parent's moved from Brooklyn or Queens, hence the "Lawn Guyland" accent.
How does that have racial overtones?
I have set out in detail on my profile page my suspicions about why certain groups have joined the anti-illegals bandwagon for everyone to see.
"I watched illegal labor nearly take over the dry wall installation business in SoCal. ...Same thing happened in some plumbing, concrete finishing, labor intensive jobs... Those weren't "the job's nobody else wanted". "
Then why weren't they doing them? Having owned a number of businesses, having had several hundred employees, and having had countless friends who were employers, I can't imagine anyone hiring an illegal if there was a viable option. Even among illegals there is wage competition. Employees are too crucial to successful businesses, and bad employees so much of a liability that no employer I've ever known would be foolish enough to try to cut corners by hiring less than the best they can get.
This doesn't apply to you I'm sure, but I have heard some "contractors" complain about Mexicans getting all the jobs, but some of those same contractors are the ones who brag about how they won't even unlock their toolbox for less than $200. They also complain about not being able to hire any helpers that speak English. Americans today don't want to start as carpenters' helpers. I did it one very hot Summer and would never do it again. Plywood is heavy and sanding is unpleasant.
Competition hits all businesses and you have to adjust or switch, not just bitch about Walmart or Mexicans. I switched many times.
Nah, we're hanging onto the 2nd amendment. You're looking at getting real close to a revolt on the illegal thing and the demise of the United States of America when it dissolves into the North American continent. If the government doesn't do something soon, we'll understand quickly why our founding fathers decided we must own guns just in case the government takes over.
I never said that comment did. I believe you've, in the past..been prompted to respond...because of racial undertones. That's what I meant...Sorry if I wasn't very clear.
I have set out in detail on my profile page my suspicions about why certain groups have joined the anti-illegals bandwagon for everyone to see.
I think I've seen that....although I've not been there recently.
I wrote:
"I watched illegal labor nearly take over the dry wall installation business in SoCal. ...Same thing happened in some plumbing, concrete finishing, labor intensive jobs... Those weren't "the job's nobody else wanted". "
And you responded below:
Then why weren't they doing them? Having owned a number of businesses, having had several hundred employees, and having had countless friends who were employers, I can't imagine anyone hiring an illegal if there was a viable option. Even among illegals there is wage competition. Employees are too crucial to successful businesses, and bad employees so much of a liability that no employer I've ever known would be foolish enough to try to cut corners by hiring less than the best they can get.
In answer to your first question...I think you already know the answer but...They weren't going to work for $8-$10 or whatever it was dollars less an hour. So, they just didn't get "called" anymore. In answer to your second question..I dunno what to tell you Rod...I'm only telling you what I saw happen, what I heard happen..and what happened. I'm not just blowing smoke your way.
This doesn't apply to you I'm sure, but I have heard some "contractors" complain about Mexicans getting all the jobs, but some of those same contractors are the ones who brag about how they won't even unlock their toolbox for less than $200. They also complain about not being able to hire any helpers that speak English. Americans today don't want to start as carpenters' helpers. I did it one very hot Summer and would never do it again. Plywood is heavy and sanding is unpleasant.
Okay...listen...here's the gist of it for me....I just get real tired of hearing the mantra..."They are only doing jobs, Americans won't do" I've given you honest examples....I could give you many more....I can explain it to you, but I can't make you understand it. And I don't mean that in a way that polarizes you....but that's my perspective.
Competition hits all businesses and you have to adjust or switch, not just bitch about Walmart or Mexicans. I switched many times.
On this we agree...
Take Care,
Cloaer ever closer comes the Social War. The question is when?
Question...does the contractor who uses 'cheap' illegal labor REALLY charge less (so as to pass some of the "savings" on to the customer) then the contractor who follows the law? (and pays US citizens and green card holders, including all insurance and taxes etc)
I've been wondering about this alot when the 'savings' argument comes into play as the reason for hiring illegally.
I don't think the actual final cost to the consumer is that much less when cheap forgein labor is used to build a home, but the contractor probably made big bucks compared to the contractor who actually hired leagal residents and US citizens, and had to pay the taxes to uncle sam.
"Where do you find your day laborers?"
Express Personnel works for me. They come complete with Workers Comp coverage, withholdings for taxes etc.
Now you're catching on. It's not cheaper, it's just more profitable.
"The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government,
1. The act of invading; the act of encroaching upon the rights or possessions of another; encroachment; trespass.
Fernando Ortiz was a ‘landscape engineer’ on Long Island who had demanded to be able to vote, on the basis that he had been paying state and federal taxes for ten years. Actually, he had been stopped from casting a ballot by a poll watcher who had suspected his citizenship status, and (illegally, as it turned out) demanded proof of his identity and legal qualification to vote. Ortiz had won a multi-million dollar settlement against the Republican Party of New York in the subsequent “racial profiling and ethnic intimidation” civil suit, but he did not stop there.
Instead, with massive support from the ACLU and various Hispanic “immigrants rights” foundations, he had pressed his demand to be allowed to vote all the way to the Supreme Court…and he won. The Supreme Court, in its famous 5-4 decision, ruled that negligence in securing America’s borders against illegal immigration on the part of the federal government, could not be held against “undocumented workers who played by the rules and paid their taxes,” once they were established in America—legally or not. The federal government had not taken reasonable efforts to secure the border, and had not pursued "undocumented workers" in the USA. Instead, it openly permitted them most of the benefits of citizenship, and it collected their taxes. "No taxation without representation!" was the cry heard all the way to the Supreme Court. The State of New York had then sleep-walked through an aimless and desultory case for denying the vote—and citizenship—to “undocumented workers.”
Following Ortiz v. New York, a stunned America woke up to discover that there were not only an amazing twenty-two million illegal aliens hiding in plain sight across the land, but that eight million of them immediately qualified to vote. In a nation split 50-50 down party and ideological lines, these eight million new voters were recognized to be the certain majority-makers in future elections, and both parties set record lows for cravenness in pandering to their “needs.” Chief among their “needs” were liberal new family reunification laws, and these instant citizens—illegal aliens only a year before—began bringing the remainders of their families to the USA. Legally.
Overnight, wavering Democrat states became locks, and swing states with large Hispanic populations went solidly “blue.” The result was the recent election which had brought Gobernador Deleon to power in Nuevo Mexico, and had also brought radical Democrats to power in the White House and both houses of congress.
Thus had come the political tsunami which swept all before it, a tidal wave triggered by an undocumented lawn maintenance worker named Fernando Ortiz.
You're right Clemenza, I suppose blue collar is a better description. My family were immigrants in the 1960's and ended up living in a working class neighborhood in Hollis, Queens. I spent alot of time during the summer with friends in Patchogue and Mastic beach. Beautiful areas, but certainly not rich. My parents often thought about leaving Queens and moving out to the island. However my father did not drive and there was really no public transport to the train. My parents recently went to visit old friends still living in Mastic beach...they reported that houses were still very affordable, but propert taxes have gone through the roof.
Where did you get that?
This is certainly not true. I own a pool service business in the DC area, I've probably used "illegals" as sub-contractors...no way I could prove it, they've got papers, insurance etc. I deal with alot of landscape companies and deck and tile guys too...all of them gripe at having to constantly hire people who's english is terrible.
They hire the normal way, post an ad in the paper, pay ranges from $12-18 per hour, not shabby for menial work. Although the District of Columbia has high unemployment...guess what..no takers. No high school kids either.....just spanish guys. These are very small businesses run by one guy, and helpers.
Oh, and before you scream the employer should have checked whether their soc #'s were real....you are only allowed to do that AFTER you hire them. And don't fire them if their numbers come back as wrong...noooo, the govt states on their website that you could be sued....after all there is probably a perfectly good reason why the number is wrong, so go ahead and ask them to give you another number.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.