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Hiroshima and Nagasaki
Colorado Gold ^ | 8-1-2005 | Don

Posted on 08/01/2005 7:21:44 PM PDT by satchmodog9

Hiroshima and Nagasaki

While most may not remember the details, they do know about that famous B-29 bomber which dropped two atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki Japan, for all practical purposes ending World War Two. The Smithsonian has completed a cosmetic restoration of the Enola Gay, the plane that dropped the bombs, and is now on display. As expected, a large sized hullabaloo has arisen over the way Harry Truman decided to end the war. Various old saws are paraded about, such as the hackneyed and untrue one that, "The Japanese had already sued for peace," "Atomic weapons shouldn't have been used," and "Unnecessary lives were lost." After 60 years, a lot of facts have been lost, buried, or conveniently forgotten. Allow me to refresh your memory.

The Japanese hadn't sued for peace at all, but were continuing the war, as if nothing had happened, vowing to kill all the POW's if they lost. As each island was captured, it was discovered that Allied prisoners had been shot, beheaded, drowned, burned, or in some other way killed in the most unmentionable atrocities. The professional hand wringers remember two dates: August 6th, 1945, when the first atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, and August 9th, when a larger one was dropped on Nagasaki. Here are a few more pertinent dates, which will explain August 6th and 9th, 1945.

Even though the Jap navy had been largely sunk, air force decimated, and factories destroyed, they fought on, as if all was going well. They considered themselves to be a superior race, which could not be beaten by inferior 'white devils.' Then came the B-29 "Super Fortress." On the nights of March 9 and 10, the largest air raid in history took place over Tokyo, with 279 B-29's unloading fire bombs, totally destroying 16 square miles of that city with five million inhabitants. 63% of the commercial district, and 18% of the remaining industrial capacity was destroyed in these raids. 250,000 buildings were destroyed, and possibly as many as 100,000 killed. The flames could be seen a hundred miles at sea by the crews, as they returned to their home bases or carriers. Next month, the B-29's came back again, further destroying Tokyo. Still, the Japanese acted as if nothing had happened, continued to kill POW's, and believing Tojo's words, that all was going well. The 'white devils' were being smashed.

On May 24th and 25th, the Super Fortresses came back again, this time another record being set, with 558 planes over Tokyo, this time destroying half the city, with 56.3 miles being reduced to ashes. Still no surrender. By the end of June, 13 million Japanese were homeless, and 58 smaller cities were being hit. On July 10th, 2,000 planes were in the air over Japan. B-29's, as well as fighters were bombing everything in sight, and even dropping leaflets, giving the schedules as to what cities were next in line.

Surrender was not in the Jap lexicon. Rather than being taken prisoner or surrendering, hundreds of thousands of them committed hari-kari. On Iwo Jima, 21,000 Jap soldiers died, and on Okinawa, 70,000. The Emperor expected them to resist to the death, and they followed instructions. On July 26th, Japan was told to give up or face prompt and utter destruction. On August 1st, 836 B-29's again broke records for the largest bomb drop, and number of planes in air raid history. No reply.

Truman had enough. He knew the Japs had promised no POW would be spared, and an invasion of the mainland would cost a million lives of both the Japs and Allies. There was absolutely no reasoning with them. On August 6th, the Enola Gay (maiden name of the pilot's mother) came over Hiroshima at 31,600 feet, and dropped "Little Boy," killing perhaps 100,000. After the drop, Truman said that Japan must give up or, "Face a rain of ruin from the air, the like of which had never been seen on this earth." No reply. Three days later, on August 9th, "Fat Man" was dropped over Nagasaki, killing perhaps another 50,000. Still no surrender. Finally, on August 15th, almost a week after Nagasaki had been destroyed, and over a week after Hiroshima, the Japanese surrendered.

The Americans had warned, pleaded, begged, threatened, and done everything in their power to end the war with a civilized surrender. The Japs wouldn't give up, in spite of the Allies virtually destroying their major cities, minor cities, navy, air force, manufacturing capability, capturing their outposts, and making every possible conventional war move. It was necessary to do what was done. The Japanese would have fought to their last man, killing every prisoner they held along the way, and obliterating their nation from the face of the earth, probably thinking that in the after-life, they would receive just rewards for fighting the 'white devils.' Truman did what he had to do, and saved the most lives in the process.

The dropping of those two nuclear bombs on Japan, save at least a million lives, and shortened the war by many months. Those that choose not to recognize that America tried over and over again to get them to surrender, without success, ignore the figures as borne out by history. The death rate in the Jap POW camps was 27%, and in German ones, 4%, The Holocaust did not take place in POW camps. The Germans obeyed the Geneva Convention as best they could, and the Japs didn't even try. The Jap POW camps were so lethal, that few returning veterans would even speak of them, and most of the WW II stories and film, ignore the Jap camps, they were so brutal and death dealing. I can see no wrong in remembering and approving the final act which ended that hideous war. The true crime, was FDR getting us into it in the first place. I still will not own anything Japanese, and am glad to admit it.


TOPICS: Japan; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: atomicbomb; enolagay; hiroshima; nagasaki; wwii
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To: oceanview
Bockscar is at Wright-Pat AFB at the Air Force Museum.

I'll be there tomorrow.
121 posted on 08/02/2005 1:55:35 PM PDT by Veloxherc (To go up pull back, to go down pull back all the way.)
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To: oceanview
Bockscar is at Wright-Pat AFB at the Air Force Museum.

I'll be there tomorrow.
122 posted on 08/02/2005 1:55:36 PM PDT by Veloxherc (To go up pull back, to go down pull back all the way.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Are you really that obtuse?

Yes, of frikkin course. killing people is against the Law, both man's and GOD's.

You cannot begin to understand what happened if you can't understand a place beyond Law.

A place called SURVIVAL.

A place called TOTAL WAR.


123 posted on 08/02/2005 2:02:44 PM PDT by porkchops 4 mahound (Holy phooking shee ite! I shall urinate no more into such a strong winda me no like wet! Pax Raus!)
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To: Romulus

Ya think?


124 posted on 08/02/2005 2:04:32 PM PDT by porkchops 4 mahound (Holy phooking shee ite! I shall urinate no more into such a strong winda me no like wet! Pax Raus!)
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To: Veloxherc

Dittos in a few weeks. Gonna be cool!


125 posted on 08/02/2005 2:34:16 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (© 2005, Ravin' Lunatic since 4/98)
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To: porkchops 4 mahound
Yes, of frikkin course. killing people is against the Law, both man's and GOD's.

Actually it's not always. "Thou shalt not Kill" is a poor translation, a better one would have been "Thou shalt not Murder". Many kinds of homicide, such as killing in self defense or killing enemy soldiers during a war, are not murder.

126 posted on 08/02/2005 2:39:15 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: Mrs. Don-o
The objection is, that the civilians killed at Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not collateral deaths. These deaths were intended, inasmuch as (1) the US chose to use indiscriminate weapons of mass destruction and (2) the US intended that the psychological effect of a butchery of such magnitude would shock the Japanese High Command.

Tell me would you have dropped the Bomb on Berlin to end the the Holocaust ? The Japanese went on a rampage in WWII and did things that we would have hanged the Germans over a dozen times for

I have some sympathy for the individual citizens,but countries that embark on wars of conquest and genocide should be ready for the consequences

Honorable soldiers don't target civilians. George Washington didn't target civilians. Robert E. Lee didn't target civilians.

back then wars were fought by professional armies,and they weren't fighting against Hitler and Co either

127 posted on 08/02/2005 3:21:33 PM PDT by Charlespg (Civilization and freedom are only worthy of those who defend or support defending It)
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To: Prime Choice

You didn't try it yet, did you. Your cowardice speaks for itself.


128 posted on 08/02/2005 3:26:17 PM PDT by k2blader (Hic sunt dracones..)
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To: jude24
I know my professors would freak if I used the term "Jap" in a serious article. It is considered a racial slur.

Those who were attacked by the Japanese lived through something we never had to live through. They have emotions we don't have.

129 posted on 08/02/2005 3:26:52 PM PDT by bannie (The government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend upon the support of Paul.)
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To: bannie

There's no excuse for being racist.

Period.


130 posted on 08/02/2005 3:27:52 PM PDT by k2blader (Hic sunt dracones..)
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To: Dont_Tread_On_Me_888

Strong people are able to laugh at themselves.

Others whine a lot.

:-) You're strong AND wise.


131 posted on 08/02/2005 3:32:47 PM PDT by bannie (The government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend upon the support of Paul.)
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To: k2blader
Didn't read my message yet, did you.

Your arrogance is eclipsed only by your ignorance.

132 posted on 08/02/2005 3:38:45 PM PDT by Prime Choice (Thanks to the Leftists, yesterday's deviants are today's "alternate lifestyles.")
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To: k2blader
Racist? Naw...they were being attacked and decided to call the enemy a shortened name. The name became a dirty word to them because the enemy elicited feelings of contempt and disgust.

Germans were called Krauts. Racist? Naw...contempt for an enemy who wanted to kill them.

"Exclamation Mark" to trump your "Period."

133 posted on 08/02/2005 3:48:58 PM PDT by bannie (The government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend upon the support of Paul.)
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To: Prime Choice
I'm sorry for calling you a coward. I shouldn't have. Also, I don't even think you are one.

It's easy to type things on the computer so far away and detached from the souls at the other screens. I think there's a similarity between that and this "Jap" business.

I live in a place where there are many, many Americans of Japanese ancestry. The vast majority weren't around or weren't "of age" during WWII. A much smaller number of them, dying out now, were a part of those who fought against the Nazis in Europe.

One *never* uses the word "Jap" here unless he seriously intends to be derogatory, because to the Americans who happen to look Japanese, it *is* derogatory.

Re. your message: #76? I read it.
134 posted on 08/02/2005 3:56:57 PM PDT by k2blader (Hic sunt dracones..)
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To: bannie

See #134.


135 posted on 08/02/2005 3:58:05 PM PDT by k2blader (Hic sunt dracones..)
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To: Charlespg
As I mentioned in previous posts, the extreme murderousness of the Axis Powers would justify the use of overwhelming military power on our part to destroy their war-making capacities. That this would produce high collateral civilian casualties is pretty horrible, but under the circumstances, inevitable.

All that is quite different from indiscriminate city = target bombing. To deliberately and indiscriminately kill noncombatants is not, properly speaking, an act of war. It is massacre. It is murder.

136 posted on 08/02/2005 4:13:04 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (What does the Lord require of you?)
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To: jude24
This is a public forum; I don't need an invitation for my opinion. Especially when it's right.

I know my professors would freak if I used the term "Jap" in a serious article. It is considered a racial slur.

You are wrong -- dead wrong. You and your professors have never lived through a total war, as WW-II was, where the very existence of the the US as a nation and the lives and liberties of all the world's people were at at stake. I grew up listening to the stories of both veterans and civilians who did.

The Allied forces and their civilian support (which included damn near every man, woman, and child in the Allied countries) had to be unified in the effort to win on every front. The hearts, minds, and souls of everyone had to be 100% committed to the war effort, and a great part of that commitment was recognizing the the enemy as the enemy, and not as a distant cousin with whom one is having a temporary tiff. Japanese enemy were called "Japs" during the war; German enemy were called "Krauts". There were probably some other more or less flattering terms used, but the point is that the enemy is unambiguously differentiated from "us" and our "Allies". Many of those who lived through those years continued to use terminology from the war years. It was more a case of History, than one of racism.

Some PC pantie-waists existed around those times, but were roundly ridiculed into oblivion, shamed into silence, or occasionally locked up or worse for their treasonous actions.

You may very well experience such a "total war" before you get much older. You, and many, many others, will be changed significantly, forever, win or lose.

137 posted on 08/02/2005 4:20:08 PM PDT by meadsjn
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To: k2blader
I regret our disagreeable exchange as well.

I can appreciate your point of view. I just get infuriatingly stubborn sometimes. (Surprised?)   ;o)

Best wishes.

138 posted on 08/02/2005 5:27:15 PM PDT by Prime Choice (Thanks to the Leftists, yesterday's deviants are today's "alternate lifestyles.")
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To: bannie

Thank you very much. You help make communicating unjoyable here when one receives a nice compliment like that.

THX!


139 posted on 08/02/2005 7:53:03 PM PDT by Dont_Tread_On_Me_888 (Bush's #1 priority Africa. #2 priority appease Fox and Mexico . . . USA priority #64.)
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To: rlmorel
So, Japan may not have invented "my race is better" since that prize probably goes to some fairly primitive human tribe, but if you think for even one second that the Japanese were not even more racist than the Westerners who fought them, then I do not believe you understand the Japanese.

I think you and I are pretty much on the same page on this. My guess is the Japanese (in the lump) are every bit as ethnocentric now as they were during WWII. I don't think you can turn away from eons of programming in just a generation or two. I also think that in combatant relations, the Japanese in WWII were about as evil as you can get.

I can say after years of sea stories that there is al least one American that hated the Japanese as much as they hated him. I simply don't think it would cause him to torture a Japanese soldier for fun.

140 posted on 08/02/2005 8:47:14 PM PDT by stevem
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