Here she is...The Enola Gay.
I am told it is more than a cosmetic restoration...that she could be flown with a little more work.
I believe it from looking at her.
Posted on 08/01/2005 7:21:44 PM PDT by satchmodog9
Here she is...The Enola Gay.
I am told it is more than a cosmetic restoration...that she could be flown with a little more work.
I believe it from looking at her.
You beat me to it. He's a wingnut.
the WW2 Japanese were like diabolical demon lemmings from Hell. Sometimes I wonder how much they have really changed , if given the chance...or perhaps China now takes the helm
in the Asiatic superiority complex?
Bring it on....
My dad served in the Pacific. He called a jap a jap till the day he died when the topic of WWII came up. I was not about to tell him about being pc, he would have knocked my head off.
Ain't that the truth. I'm amazed the liberals still allow it in school.
I read Huck Finn to my son when he was 4. Changed the "n" word to slave and it read just fine!
This was a fight to the death that was nothing like the war in Europe. IMHO that had as much to do with cultural clash as ideological clash. The Japanese felt there was no honor in fighting until the battle was lost and then surrendering. They felt battles should be fought to the last man...period. Thus you have massive death tolls on so many of those islands even to silly lengths such as Saipan. How many Japanese literally committed suicide on Saipan, even non combatants rather than surrender?
I think this view also accounted for at least some of the poor treatment of POWs. Americans fought until it was pointless on Corregidor and Wake Island then surrendered. The Japanese felt such behavior was wosre than that of dogs and treated prisoners accordingly. And that was on top of an already egocentric mind set that even other Asians were sub human and whites didn't quite ascend to the level of subhuman.
I don't think the Japanese invented the belief that "my race is better." Go back and look at some headlines of the day in the United States. The term "yellow peril" comes to mind.
In any event that war became a fight to the death, which makes the whole story even more compelling. I heard or read somewhere, or perhaps it's a story my Dad told, that orders were sent to the line on Iwo Jima that Japanese POWs were to be escorted to the rear and if they didn't make it alive, the escort would stand before a court marshall for murder. I don't think any courts marshall were ever held, but it helps understand the sentiment of the day.
I also read somewhere that in Japan, women and children were being taught how to attack machine guns using that time honored weapon of the broom stick because Americans liked to eat dead Japanese. How leaders can explain the need for such knowledge and action while also saying the white devils are being defeated everywhere will remain a mystery.
It's chic these days to say the use of nuclear weapons on Japan was immoral. It's so delightfully liberal to say it with the intervening cushion of 60 years. If you look at the mindset of the era, Americans felt sinking the entire Japanese nation 100 feet below the surface of the sea to save one more marine was a fair trade. If it came out that we had invaded Japan at the loss of who knows how many while Truman sat on such a life saving weapon, he would have been lucky to be tarred and feathered.
I also find it interesting that there are a few Japanese philosophers these days that admit there were a great deal more Japanese lives saved because of Hiroshima and Nagasaki than were lost in those cities.
I think Japanese fighters hated white folk. I think the feeling was mutual among sailors, soldiers and marines wearing US uniforms. The foundations of their cultures were so different as were their attitudes of life that it isn't surprising. It also makes negative judgements of those that fought for the good guys to be just a bit petty.
It's all in the context. You wouldn't call someone a racist for using the term Brit for a Britisher, but I've heard anti-British Irish use it as a term of invective. In their context, Brit a derogatory word. I use Brit, but my wife is from Britain, and it's a common term for me with no nasty implications. People like the writer of this article might mean to use Jap as a derogatory appellation, but it isn't necessarily so.
I wanna say the Smithsonian at Dulles, but I'm not sure.
Got it in one. http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/aircraft/boeing_b29.htm I believe the USAFM has a B-29, but not that one.
I still haven't made it to the new hangar, but it's high on the list for my next vacation plan. There are plenty of places where you can see an SR-71, but the Enola Gay and Shuttle Enterprise are unique attractions. Probaby some time in the fall, because who needs DC in August? (OTOH, going during a Congressional recess may reduce the chance of having your pocket picked.)
I saw the Enola Gay last time it was on display, but it wasn't whole -- they only had enough space in the building on the Mall for most of the fuselage and part of a wing.
The History Channel had an interesting show on this several months ago. According to it, one courageous aide to the Emperor took quite a beating rather than reveal the location of the Emperor's recorded speech, and one quick-thinking radio technician bluffed the coup leaders that he didn't have the technical capability to let them broadcast nationwide.
Amazing that hundreds of thousands of lives might have been spared because two men summoned up that kind courage and presence of mind with gun barrels in their faces.
Another vote here. I went several years ago when a friend rented a Cessna for a fly-in at WPAFB. Let me tell ya, going from Atlanta to Dayton for a quick day trip is a good argument in favor of getting a pilot's license.
The hangars are enormous. Any structure that dwarfs a B-52 is pretty impressive all by itself.
I knew an Iwo Jima Marine years ago at Ford Motor Company who retired rather than be forced to take an assignment where he would have to work closely with the Japanese. Anyone who wants a great read and stark insights on how these people thought and fought during that war might want to read "Flags of Our Fathers" by ? Bradley which is about the flag raising on Iwo Jima. They weren't going to quit and it would have taken tanker loads of our blood to defeat them. Truman had gonads as big as bowling balls, and I admire that Democrat for the decision to drop the bombs.
No one's talking about an apology for anything said in the 1940s. The issue raised was whether it's an appropriate term in a historical essay written in 2005, and I have to agree with Jude24 that it isn't.
That was the term used back then and it was used to label the enemy. There was no racial overtones in these names. It was just a short way of indicating the enemy.
Sorry, but the notion that "Jap" or "Nip" or "Kraut" or "Hun" was just a convenient shorthand doesn't wash. Wartime propaganda was openly, broadly racist, though they did at least make an effort to educate people on how to tell the difference between Japanese and Chinese. Feel free to call those terms "ethnic slurs" if you think "racial" is too broad, but it doesn't change their nature.
Again, I'm not saying that the people who fought World War II have anything to apologize for -- we were in a total war to ensure the survival of civilization, and demonizing the enemy was part of the struggle -- but it's another question whether those are appropriate words for an article written for publication in 2005 and meant to be taken seriously as history.
Esplain? I could take that one a few different ways.
The Japnese were firmly convinced that non-Japanese were less than human, and deserved no mercy. The horrors they visited on Allied POWs and on Chinese civilians in Nanking were enough to make the Nazis vomit.
The Americans were also encouraged to view the Japanese as less than human, through wartime propaganda that depicted them variously as monkeys, rats, or vampires. The U.S. interned native-born, loyal citizens of Japanese ancestry.
Now, let's get clear that America's acts of racism were not in the same ball park with the Japanese. They weren't in the same league. They weren't on the same planet. So when I say that it was a racist war on both sides, I'm talking about rudeness on one side and atrocity on the other.
Ain't that the truth. I'm amazed the liberals still allow it in school.
Historically, the most common challenge against Huck Finn and Tom Sawyer has been a conservative one, that it encourages children to rebel against authority, though objections to the N-word are probably catching up.
Absolutely. Another poster raised the issue of whether "Jew" is a slur or not. If I made the statement that "Jews don't eat pork," that could hardly be described as racist. But if I yelled "Hey! Jew!" in an angry tone at a stranger in the street, he'd have every right to believe that I meant him ill.
You wouldn't call someone a racist for using the term Brit for a Britisher, but I've heard anti-British Irish use it as a term of invective.
As you said, context. Redneck, cracker, even the N-bomb are affectionate jibes from a friend, but a slap in the face from a stranger. I used to routinely call an Irish-American friend a "drunken Fenian bastard," because a) he was (to be honest, we were), 2) he knew I meant it playfully, and iii) it's an archaic enough insult that it's almost quaint. I wouldn't try that on a red-haired stranger in the street, because as I've passed the age of 35, I am more aware of my own mortality than I was in younger years.
You wrote: "...I don't think the Japanese invented the belief that "my race is better." Go back and look at some headlines of the day in the United States. The term "yellow peril" comes to mind."
They may not have invented it, but are absolutely on par with "Us" if not worse when it comes to racism, and exceed our capability for xenophobia by a large factor.
The Japanese are probably the most homogenous society for one that large on the face of the earth. They have a common history that all Japanese share, predating Westerners in many cases. If you don't think that fosters an attitude of racism and xenophobia in the Japanese, you don't know them.
You would never be able to get an individual Japanese person to admit to your face how they view you, they are far too polite on the surface to do so. But if you know their culture and understand the language, it can be shocking to listen to what they say to each other when they don't think you understand. But they would never say those things directly to you.
If all the Japanese in Japan were lined up and asked to describe Americans and other Westerners in one word, the majority would probably come up with “selfish.” The reason for this is simple enough. The Japanese were conditioned for centuries to look upon independent, individualistic behavior—the hallmark of Americans and many other Westerners—as selfish, confrontational and disruptive. Outsiders are perceived as barbarians because they don't conform to cultural mandates and because no loyalty is owed to them. Independence is a social stigma; interdependence brings identity, acceptance, security, and a sense of purpose
I lived in Japan for several years, so I understand them a little better than many Americans do. I genuinely like the Japanese. Their capacity for appreciation of subtle beauty is unparalleled. They are so polite it often makes you want to scream. They are very considerate and generous, and have, in general, a great sense of humor.
I also lived in the Phillipines for several years. The Filipinos remember all too well the occupation of the Japanese. It was not, by any means, a benevolent occupation. Let me tell you, there is a good reason many countries in the Far East are troubled by, and fear, a re-militarized Japan.
Was the fighting different in the Pacific and European theatres? You bet, it was much more primitive and final in the Pacific. Did our military respect the abilities of those they fought equally? Yes. You talk to any Marine or sailor, and the respect he felt for the fighting ability of his Japanese opponent is evident. But that does not translate into kinship, as it may have done in the European theater against the Germans. There were no cases, or very few in the Pacific that parallel the experience of soldiers in the Battle of the Bulge who could hear Germans singing Christmas Carols, where a impromptu truce could unofficially take place for at least a couple of hours, and both sides could see their opponents as very much like themselves.
As for the Bomb, I do not think we disagree. My father, a 30 year naval veteran who served through WWII, Korea and Vietnam, was the speaker at the Veterans Day parade each year until the year he passed away. He got in trouble several years back with the un-PC statement "Dropping the bomb on Japan was the right thing to do." The papers up here the next day had articles like "WWII Vet approves the use of nuclear weapons against Japan" or some similar headline. My dad was not used to dealing with reporters.
So, Japan may not have invented "my race is better" since that prize probably goes to some fairly primitive human tribe, but if you think for even one second that the Japanese were not even more racist than the Westerners who fought them, then I do not believe you understand the Japanese.
" This was a fight to the death that was nothing like the war in Europe. IMHO that had as much to do with cultural clash as ideological clash. "
Your assertion that "this was a racist war" implies that the war was fought purely on the mutual dislike or hatred between the U.S. and the Japanese.
It was Japan's attack on China that precipitated the whole mess. We didn't impose an embargo on oil and raw materials because we hated the Japanese, it was in response to them slaughtering millions of Chinese. They didn't attack Pearl Harbor because they hated us, it was because we stood in their way (Thank God) of conquering and killing their neighbors.
What you've written shows what the war became and not really why it was fought.
Also they have a B-52 there and when you read its history (Vietnam) you get chills. She is a battlescarred veteran.
The Enola Gay is out at the Smithsonian Museum extension at Dulles and it is worth the trip just to see her. She is a beautiful old darling; looks ready to go.
Japanese tourists always pause to look at her....hard to know what they are thinking.
Regards,
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.