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Astronomers claim discovery of 10th planet in solar system
Outlook ^ | July 30,2005 | AFP

Posted on 07/30/2005 12:09:55 AM PDT by Srirangan

A US astronomer has said he had discovered a 10th planet in the outer reaches of the solar system that could force a redrawing the astronomical map.

If confirmed, the discovery yesterday by Mike Brown of the respected California Institute of Technology would be the first of a planet since Pluto was identified in 1930 and shatter the notion that nine planets circle the sun.

"Get out your pens. Start re-writing textbooks today," said Brown, a professor of planetary astronomy, announcing what he called "the 10th planet of the solar system," one that is larger than Pluto.

"It's the farthest object ever discovered to orbit around the sun," Brown said in a conference call of the planet that is covered in methane ice and lies nearly 15 billion kilometers (nine billion miles) from Earth.

"I'd say it's probably one and a half times the size of Pluto," he said from CalTech, based in Pasadena, near Los Angeles, referring to what until now has been the most distant planet in earth's solar system.

Currently about 97 times further from the sun than the Earth, the celestial body tentatively called "2003-UB313" is the farthest known object in the solar system, and the third brightest of the Kuiper belt objects.

It is a typical member of the Kuiper belt, but its sheer size in relation to the nine known planets means that it can only be classified as a planet, Brown said.

The astronomer conceded he and his team did not know the exact size of the new planet, but its brightness and distance tell them that it is at least as large as Pluto, which measures 2,302 km in diameter.

The size of an object in the solar system object can be inferred by its brightness, just as the size of a faraway light bulb can be calculated if one knows its wattage, he explained.

"We are 100 per cent confident that this is the first object bigger than Pluto ever found in the outer solar system."

But Brown conceded that the discovery would likely rekindle debate over the definition of the term "planet" and whether Pluto should still be regarded as one.

Critics have long questioned whether Pluto, which resembles objects in the Kuiper belt, is actually a planet.

Brown discovered what could be a new addition to the universe known to man along with colleagues Chad Trujillo, of the Gemini Observatory in Mauna Kea, Hawaii, and David Rabinowitz, of Yale University, on January 8.

The planet was first spotted on October 31, 2003 with the Samuel Oschin Telescope at Palomar Observatory near San Diego, California.

But it was so far away that its motion was not detected until the scientists reanalysed the data earlier this year, Brown said.

The astronomers have proposed a name for the "planet" to the science's governing body, the International Astronomical Union, and are awaiting the decision of this body before announcing it.

The planet has not been noticed previously because its orbit is at a 45 degree angle to the rest of the solar system, he said.

"We found it because we've looked everywhere else. Nobody looks way up that high. It's tilted way out of plane," he added.


TOPICS: Front Page News; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: exploration; planets; planetx; sedna; solarsystem; space; xplanets
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To: Srirangan

Please someone let me know how this develops. Far's I understand we've reached the outside boundry of where we'd consider a spherical object a planet in our system.

Best to all ....


21 posted on 07/30/2005 1:00:08 AM PDT by fire and forget
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To: Srirangan

Let's call it..........CANDYLAND!


22 posted on 07/30/2005 1:11:04 AM PDT by Finalapproach29er (America is gradually becoming the Godless,out-of-control golden-calf scene,in "The Ten Commandments")
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To: Srirangan

Wow!


23 posted on 07/30/2005 1:14:44 AM PDT by diamond6 (Everyone who is for abortion has already been born. Ronald Reagan)
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To: SkyPilot
Clearly, we should recategorize Pluto as "giant disco ball."


24 posted on 07/30/2005 2:01:54 AM PDT by billybudd
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To: Srirangan

I suggest it be named Ymir, after the ice giant from Norse mythology.


25 posted on 07/30/2005 2:04:43 AM PDT by Hugin
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To: A CA Guy

[What else could you call a distant ice planet?]


An asteroid?


26 posted on 07/30/2005 2:14:17 AM PDT by spinestein (The facts fairly and honestly presented, truth will take care of itself.)
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To: Prime Choice

As our detection and measurement technology improves, it is likely this is not the last large object to be discovered in above the plane, cometary like or extremely distant orbits.


27 posted on 07/30/2005 2:24:37 AM PDT by Truth29
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To: Srirangan
Brown said in a conference call of the planet that is covered in methane.

Can any FReepers think of a suitable name for a planet covered in methane?

1) Clintonius

2) Democratus

3) MichaelMoorus

28 posted on 07/30/2005 2:40:01 AM PDT by Caipirabob (Democrats.. Socialists..Commies..Traitors...Who can tell the difference?)
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To: Straight Vermonter

You got me thinking, which is dangerous. So I found a link.

Is Sedna a moon?

The entire is is devoted to discussion Sedna.

Cool stuff!

29 posted on 07/30/2005 2:45:55 AM PDT by Caipirabob (Democrats.. Socialists..Commies..Traitors...Who can tell the difference?)
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To: Srirangan
9th! Pluto isn't a planet. You really can't count Pluto unless you want to include countless planetoids in that region.
30 posted on 07/30/2005 2:51:36 AM PDT by Spiff (Don't believe everything you think.)
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To: A CA Guy

Are you serious?


31 posted on 07/30/2005 3:21:31 AM PDT by Straight Vermonter (John 6: 51-58)
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To: AntiGuv; SkyPilot

There certainly has to be a dividing line somewhere between planet and "smaller stuff" but why exclude Pluto?

I think the thing to do is say that objects larger than Pluto are planets and objects smaller than Pluto are not.

It is certainly subjective but any dividing line will have to be subjective.


32 posted on 07/30/2005 3:50:20 AM PDT by Straight Vermonter (John 6: 51-58)
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To: Straight Vermonter
I think the thing to do is say that objects larger than Pluto are planets and objects smaller than Pluto are not.

That standard would classify Luna, Io, Europa, Ganymede, Callisto, Titan and Triton as planets. The obvious solution is to exclude bodies in orbit around a planet, but the question is why should Pluto get a break?? If we were just discovering Pluto now way out amongst its sister snowballs, we wouldn't even be considering to classify it as a planet.

33 posted on 07/30/2005 3:59:52 AM PDT by AntiGuv (™)
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To: Straight Vermonter

We could just classify Pluto an honorary planet.


34 posted on 07/30/2005 4:00:41 AM PDT by AntiGuv (™)
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To: Srirangan
so do we deport the democrats or the islamofacists to the 10th one?

Can't we send both?

And watch them become extinct?

35 posted on 07/30/2005 4:03:02 AM PDT by Allegra (Less Than 20 Days Until R&R - W'HOOOO!)
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To: Srirangan

"Wireless Fence" transmitter No.4


36 posted on 07/30/2005 4:31:17 AM PDT by MrBambaLaMamba (Buy 'Allah' brand urinal cakes - If you can't kill the enemy at least you can piss on their god)
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To: A CA Guy

The reason Hillery is frigid is because she never met a "real" man. Bill is a poor excuse for a husband.


37 posted on 07/30/2005 4:52:48 AM PDT by ZULU (Fear the government which fears your guns. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: AntiGuv; Caipirabob
Here is an interesting article from the link Caipirabob posted above.
What is the definition of a planet?

Astoundingly, no precise scientific definition of the word "planet" currently exists. It is rare for scientists to have to define a word that is already in common usage and that everybody from school children on up already understand. How does one then go about constructing a scientific definition of such a word after the fact?

In such cases, we believe that it is important to be both true to the historical and popular perception of the meaning of the word while being scientifically descriptive, accurate, and meaningful. We will use these points -- historically valid and scientifically meaningful -- as the criteria on which to judge potential definitions of the word "planet." We have identified 4 major ideas for the definition of the word "planet" (though the most common have never been written down to our knowledge):

* Purely historical. Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto are planets. Nothing else in the solar system is a planet. This definition is definitely historically valid, but fails miserably under scientific meaning. What if a new object larger than Pluto is found? What is it? Why is Pluto a planet but an object 3/4 its size, like Sedna, is not? This definition, completely lacking in scientific motivation, makes the word "planet" meaningless as a scientific description.

* Historical plus. Mercury through Pluto are planets, as is any newly discovered object larger than Pluto. This definition is, we believe, the one in most common colloquial use throughout the world, even if people don't realize that this is the definition they are using. Indeed, if Sedna had been larger than Pluto, most would have hailed it as a 10th planet. This definition -- like the previous -- is historically consistent, but -- like the previous -- still fails the scientific test. Why is Pluto the cutoff size? Is there really a big enough difference in size between Pluto and Sedna and Quaoar that one should be called a planet while the others are not? The scientific answer remains a resounding no.

* Gravitational rounding. Any object which is round due to its own gravitational pull and which directly orbits the sun is called a planet. This definition is very different! It is strictly scientific, yet historically valid, as all objects that we call planets by the historical definitions are indeed round due to their own gravitational pull. More importantly (and by a complete coincidence) the dividing line between objects which are round and those which are not round is just a few times smaller than the size of Pluto. So why not take advantage of this coincidence and simply define planets to be objects which are round? To do so means that we must admit several other bodies to the class of "planet." Sedna, Quaoar, the asteroid Ceres, and perhaps a dozen Kuiper belt objects are also likely to be round and thus, by this definition, planets. But these additions are perhaps a small price to pay for a definition which rests on solid scientific principles.

Unfortunately, this definition completely fails the historical sanity check. Historically, where does the criterion to be round come from, except for the near coincidence between the historical definition of planet and the transition size from round to not round? At no time in previous history has any discussion of whether or not an object is round been part of the discussion of whether or not it should be called a planet. Ceres was initially considered to be a planet, but not because it is round (which was unknown at the time), but because it was the only object known to exist between Mars and Jupiter. When other asteroids of similar sizes were found at nearly the same location it was decided to call them all members of the asteroid belt, rather than planets.

Roundness is an important physical property, and gravity is the dominant force in the solar system, so perhaps it is important to have a special word which describes the class of objects in the solar system which are round. But simply because all historical planets are round does not at all mean that it is good science to define all round objects to be planets. A much better idea is to use a different word to descibe these objects. Spheroids? Gravispheres? Actually, we prefer the word "planetoid" as a new word to descibe round objects orbiting the sun. All planets are planetoids. All planetoids are not planets.

* Population classification. This definition requires a little more explanation and a little more understanding of the solar system, but, in the end, leads to the most satisfactory definition of "planet". Just like the solar system very naturally divides itself between round objects and non-round objects, it also very naturally divides itself between solitary individuals and members of large populations. The best known example of a large population is the asteroid belt. We call it a population because one region of space contains objects with a continuous range of sizes from one moderately large object (Ceres) to a handful of slightly smaller objects (Vesta, Pallas, Hermione) to a huge number of extremely small objects (rocks, dust particles). The solitary individuals are much different. In their region of space there is only them (Earth, say) and then a collection of much much smaller objects (the near-earth asteroids), with no continuous population in between. A single example helps to dramatize the difference between a continuous population and a solitary individual. Ceres, the largest asteroid, has a diameter of 900 km. The next largest asteroid, Pallas, has a diameter of 520 km. After that is Vesta at 500 km, and Hygiea at 430 km, and the list continues on down. The jump in size between asteroids is never more than a factor of two. In contrast, the earth has a diameter of about 12,000 km, while the largest other object in the earth's vicinity, the asteroid Ganymed, has a diameter of about 41 km, a factor of 300!

Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune all count as solitary individuals by this definition. Pluto and Quaoar do not. Pluto is clearly a member of the Kuiper belt population, as can be seen from the fact that there are objects in the same vicinity slightly smaller than Pluto (Quaoar, 2004 DW, Varuna), and then even a larger number slightly smaller than that, and then on down.

What about Sedna? Sedna is currently the only object known in its orbital vicinity, but we strongly suspect that there will be many others found out there with time. We thus feel it is more reasonable to classify Sedna as a member of a large population (the inner Oort cloud of objects) rather than a solitary object. This classification saves us from having to go back and reclassify Sedna in a decade when we find more objects!

Since there is a clear scientific distinction between solitary individuals and members of large populations it is instructive to come up with words to describe these objects. The large populations can each be described by the particular population (asteroid belt, Kuiper belt, inner Oort cloud, Oort cloud). What about the solitary individuals? Isn't the best word to describe them "planet"?

Let's examine this definition in more details. First, it is certainly scientifically motivated and well-founded. But so was the "gravisphere" definition above. Is there any historical basis for saying that a planet is a solitary individual that is not a member of a large population? Yes! As mentioned earlier, historically Ceres and the first few asteroids were initially classified as planets. Only when it became known that there were many many asteroids in similar orbits was it decided that they should no longer be classified as planets. Historically, there is a clear distinction between planets and populations. Any definition which fails to make this distrinction is in strong trouble on historical grounds. This simple look at history shows that Pluto is completely analogous to Ceres. Pluto was initially thought to be a solitary individual. Over time we found more objects in the vicinity and realized instead that it is a member of a large population. Historically, then, Pluto, too, should no longer be considered a planet.

We are thus left with a final concept of the word planet. Every object in the solar system quite naturally can be classified as either a solitary individual or a member of a large population. The individuals are planets. The populations are not. This definition fits the historical desire to distinguish between asteroids and planets, and this definition fits all of the requirements of scientific motivation.

Even this definition is not perfect. People will always be able to imagine (and perhaps even find) pathological scenarios in which the above classification scheme fails. In contrast, the first three definitions are much more rigorous and will never need refining. We don't find this aspect of the first definitions an advantage, however. As we learn more about our solar system our language -- both popular and scientific -- should change to fit our knowledge. We think that our proposed classification scheme will suffice for everything that is found in our solar system, but we would like nothing better than to find some object which defies everything that we currently think we know and forces us to completely rethink fundamental questions like "what is a planet."


38 posted on 07/30/2005 4:53:01 AM PDT by Straight Vermonter (John 6: 51-58)
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To: Straight Vermonter

The fourth definition sounds perfect!


39 posted on 07/30/2005 5:04:34 AM PDT by AntiGuv (™)
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To: Srirangan

Are there any unused Roman Gods left?


40 posted on 07/30/2005 5:10:12 AM PDT by InterceptPoint
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