[Pharmboy]

A warning shot might have done the trick...or a shot in the leg.

[ExSoldier]

A warning shot might have done the trick...or a shot in the leg.

Never EVER fire a warning shot! Always shoot to STOP an attack, which means center mass and in the event of a failure to stop go to the head shot (thru an eye).

IOW: When you're up the creek, use Mozambique!

Here's what happens when you do as you have suggested: First you have to know that even the very act of displaying a firearm is use of "Deadly Force." You have the right to use deadly force when you think that YOUR life or the life of another in the same proximity of an attack is in immediate danger of suffering death or great bodily harm. IF you shoot the leg or other extremity that has little chance of being life threatening the State Attorney in an antigun jurisdiction will address the jury thusly: Mr FREEPER, you used a firearm and thus used deadly force. But you aimed for the leg....so you must NOT have really believed in your heart and soul that deadly force was justified or necessary. Therefore your actions represent extreme negligence and a reckless disregard for the laws of this state which govern such actions.....

See?

[SFC Chromey]

A warning shot might have done the trick...or a shot in the leg

---

There is no such thing as a warning shot. You either shoot to kill, or don't draw your weapon.

[gopheraj]

I've seen this before when campers forget toilet paper.

[csvset]

Ranger shoots, kills man at Crater Lake

[TC Rider]

A warning shot might have done the trick...or a shot in the leg.

If a snoot full of pepper spray had no effect, I doubt a loud noise (warning shot) would have.

Shooting his legs out from under him is also not a good idea.

You shoot to stop, not to wound.

[sandydipper]

2 rangers one bad guy - take the club away from the bad guy and kick his a$$ all the way to the jail.

[Leatherneck_MT]

Better than this scenario


"1 park Ranger was clubbed to death today in an incident reported as a domestic disturbance. 1 other Ranger is in the hospital with massive head injuries. A camper in a nearby site who tried to assist the officers is also in critical condition tonite with head injuries. The Perpetrator has not yet been found."

I prefer the former

[Mulder]

A warning shot might have done the trick...or a shot in the leg

You've been watching too much TV.

I'm no fan of the police (in general), but it appears they were clearly justified in this situation. They even have an eye-witness to back them up.

A club is a deadly weapon, and one blow in the right place can kill a man or render him a vegetable for the rest of his life. Verbally threatening someone with a club and physically moving towards them demonstrates an intent to use that deadly weapon. As such, this was a good shoot. The only mistake they made was letting the guy get that close. He easily could have struck them, even after being shot multiple times, from that close distance.

Just because someone is police officer doesn't mean that they surrender their Right to defend their life with deadly force.

Maybe those bozos at Interior will now rescind the administrative rules against us peasants carrying guns in parks.

[Doc Savage]

A virus is loose in America. Infected people flee from police cars all over California. When told to stop by police the infectees continue to either run away or charge the police. When told to put their hands up they reach for a gun. When subdued on the ground by twelve cops they contine to struggle and aasault the police.

Is there something about the word STOP that these maniac morons don't understand. A cop ever tells me to stop and I can assure you I will turn to petrified stone and do exactly as I'm told.

[verity]

They were correct. Let God sort it out.

[Squantos]

They call it deadly force for a reason ....if ya have to use it use it properly.

Just my opinion of course....

[yarddog]

I have had good luck with Rangers.

We were camping with my parents back around 1960 at Black Rock Mountain State Park in Georgia. It was in June and we were the only campers in the park.

We were from Florida and were surprised how cold it was on that mountain. The Ranger, actually I think he was the park manager brought us blankets, figuring we might be cold.

A couple of days later the Ranger, I remember his name was Mr. Christian, chased some guys from South Carolina around 40 miles before arresting them for vandalism.

Another time we were camping at a Corps of Engineers camp in Oklahoma. There was a bunch of high school age kids next to us literally raising hell, drinking yelling cursing etc. all night long. The next day, I mentioned it to the volunteer couple at the front gate.

The next night around 10 P.M. an Oklahoma Lake Patrol officer walked by their camp, saw what they were doing, and promptly told them to pack up and leave.

[csvset]

Shooting details start to emerge at Crater Lake

[csvset]

Witnesses recall fatal Crater Lake shooting

CRATER LAKE — A family camping at Mazama Campground Wednesday witnessed a park ranger fatally shooting a man armed with a club.

Tim Hughes and his family from San Dimas, Calif., heard the commotion while listening to the evening campfire lecture on the beauty of Crater Lake.

“You would hear this banging and then, ‘ARRRRG,”’ said Hughes, who owns a party and equipment rental business and brought his wife and four children for their first visit to Crater Lake.

The interpretive ranger radioed for someone to check it out. When the lecture was over, Hughes and his family walked back to their tent trailer and found it was all going on right next door, around 10 p.m. A man was yelling obscenities inside the trailer next to them. Within minutes, two rangers rolled up and Hughes motioned with his flashlight where the commotion was.

Denise Hughes took the four kids inside the tent trailer, where she got Carmen, 11, and Gabriel, 4, to lay on the floor, but Emmett, 16, and Meghan, 14, stood up to watch. Tim Hughes stayed outside.

The rangers called for the man — identified as Ronn Merl Ward, 38, hometown unreleased — to come out to talk, but keep his hands in the air. The man emerged — a tall man in his thirties, his shirt off and tattoos on his arms — but did not put his hands up, Hughes recalled.

“The ranger said, ‘Do you want to go to jail?’ and his response was, ‘Do you want to die?” Hughes said. “They suggested, ‘Let’s talk about it.’

“He went into a diatribe about, ‘Park rangers, you’re nobody,”’ Hughes said. “He picked up something, what I don’t know, and just rushed toward the rangers and they just let him have it two times. He was hit in the upper torso.”

The woman inside the trailer, who was also not yet identified, came out screaming, Hughes said.

“She went running up to the guy and said, ‘You’ve (expletive deleted) killed him,” Hughes said. “She was hugging the guy.

“This guy was way out of control,” Hughes added. “They did all they could to try to get the guy to cooperate, but he was just gone. I think he must have been on narcotics, because he didn’t exhibit rational behavior.”

Investigators collected evidence from the scene Thursday, and interviewed an unidentified woman while sitting at a picnic table. Special agents from the National Park Service were also called in, as well as rangers from other parks, Brock said.

Shootings in national parks are rare, occurring about every 10 years, said David Barna, chief of public affairs for the National Park Service headquarters in Washington, D.C.

They usually involve a fugitive fleeing inside a park and being shot by police.

Law enforcement rangers are all trained at the Federal Law Enforcement Academy in Glencoe, Ga., said park spokesman Mac Brock, a former law enforcement ranger himself.

“They are well-trained,” he said. “Being prepared and having it happen are two different things.”

The Hughes family spent the night outside the park, and returned Thursday to move to a new campsite.

“When you go camping, it’s all about families and hiking,” Hughes said. “This guy just went off and it happened to be here.”

[csvset]

Man shot at Crater Lake arrested a year ago

Published Tuesday August 2, 2005

Combined wire, local reports

Police records indicate a California man shot dead by a ranger at Crater Lake National Park last week had been arrested a year ago for allegedly pulling a knife on security guards who confronted him for shoplifting.

Ronn Merl Ward, 38, of Sunnyvale, Calif., was shot twice Wednesday night after he rushed with a club at a ranger in the Mazama Campground, authorities have said.

The National Park Service has reopened the campsite where Ward was killed, but no new information on the shooting is expected for a few days.

Park spokesman Mac Brock said lab work from an autopsy done Friday in Medford is not expected until late this week or early next week.

The National Park Service and other law enforcement agencies are continuing an investigation to determine if the ranger was justified in using deadly force.

Police records in Sunnyvale show Ward was arrested May 12, 2004, at a neighbor's house after brandishing a knife at security guards who confronted him for stealing merchandise at a grocery store. Guards notified police after noting Ward's license plate.

In a letter to the editor of the Sun newspaper in Sunnyvale dated March 30, 2005, Ward criticized the city for failing to provide enough public defenders to give people like himself proper representation. In the letter, posted on the newspaper's Web site, he wrote that he was convicted of robbery for taking some breath mints.

According to authorities and witnesses, Ward was yelling obscenities and banging around his campsite Wednesday night so that he could be heard through the trees at the evening campfire lecture in the campground, which was filled with 424 campers. A woman was in the trailer with him.

When two park rangers came to talk to him, he came out with his shirt off, but did not obey orders to raise his hands or stand still. He asked if the rangers wanted to die, then rushed at them with a wooden club. When a cloud of pepper spray did not stop him, one of the rangers shot him twice and he was pronounced dead at the scene.

Brock said the shooting death is the first in memory at Crater Lake.

"There aren't really any precedents for that," park historian Steve Mark said of a ranger firing or even pulling a weapon on a visitor.

Mark said there was an incident about nine years ago when a person at a campfire program pointed a loaded crossbow at the park interpreter. When challenged by a park employee, the person put down the crossbow. The crossbow was confiscated, but no arrests were made.

Source