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Ranger Shoots Club-Wielding Camper to Death After Call About Domestic Disturbance
Associated Press ^ | Jul 28, 2005 | Jeff Barnard

Posted on 07/28/2005 7:50:13 PM PDT by Pharmboy

CRATER LAKE, Ore. (AP) - A camper brandished a club and threatened to kill two park rangers, then was shot dead by one of them, a park spokesman said Thursday. The man encountered the rangers as they answered a call about a domestic disturbance at a campground at Crater Lake National Park after dark Wednesday, said park spokesman Mac Brock.

When the rangers tried to talk to the man, he became increasingly hostile and wandered around the campsite despite orders to stay still, Brock said.

"Still brandishing the club, still ignoring warnings to stop, he directly approached the rangers and threatened to kill them," Brock said.

When the man came within 10 feet of one of the rangers, the ranger used pepper spray, but the man didn't stop, and the second ranger shot him twice, Brock said.

The man, whose name was withheld pending notification of next of kin, was pronounced dead at the scene.

Tim Hughes and his family from San Demas, Calif., were camping nearby.

"This guy was way out of control," said Hughes, whose wife and children were inside their trailer at the time. "They did all they could to try to get the guy to cooperate, but he was just gone. I think he must have been on narcotics, because he didn't exhibit rational behavior."

The rangers remained on duty, but were not in the field. Their names were not released.

Brock said the shooting was the first he had heard of in 12 years at the park. Shootings in national parks are rare, occurring about every 10 years, said David Barna, the National Park Service's chief of public affairs in Washington, D.C.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: Oregon
KEYWORDS: alonglineofcops; badcamper; banglist; beatsthealternative; buyhimaicecream; callhimnames; canttheydoitthisway; canttheytalktohim; canttheywrasslehim; carryabigstick; distracthim; domesticviolence; easyforyoutosay; expertisethruosmosis; firstidwoundhim; gethismomonthephone; goodcopbadcop; idtellhimtodropit; ifiwerearanger; isleptataholidayinn; itworkedfortjhooker; kisshisbooboo; letsgocamping; letstalkaboutthis; officerfriendly; pepperspraytolerant; pleasedonthurtanyone; relaxmister; ruinedthetripforus; shouldnttheytrythis; somefolksneedkilling; stickclubnomatter; takedeepbreath; thisiswhatiwoulddo; trytrippinghim; walksoftly; warningshot; welliddothis; whataboutthekids; whatdotheyknow; wrasslingwithbears
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To: PAR35

"In fact, don't point a gun unless you are willing to kill whatever it is pointed toward."

I'd say don't pull out a gun unless you are going to kill..but you are right.


21 posted on 07/28/2005 8:39:40 PM PDT by TIGHTEN
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To: tbeatty

Also one to the haed as well.


22 posted on 07/28/2005 8:41:32 PM PDT by NY Attitude (You are responsible for your safety until the arrival of Law Enforcement Officers!)
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To: John Robertson

If you ever take any gun safety classes or conceal and carry class, you will learn the real reasons why LEOs and everyone else aims for the body. We're not necessarily shooting to kill, but we are shooting to stop with as few bullets as possible. Heaven forbid somebody else dies from a ricochet when you had ample opportunity to make sure you hit your target the first time.


23 posted on 07/28/2005 8:42:35 PM PDT by nhoward14
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To: Toddsterpatriot

24 posted on 07/28/2005 8:42:46 PM PDT by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything!")
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To: All

Of course he was high, it's Oregon for heaven's sake!!!


25 posted on 07/28/2005 8:43:54 PM PDT by michaelbfree
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To: RichInOC
Never bring a club to a gun fight.

But can I bring a gun club to a fight?

26 posted on 07/28/2005 8:46:02 PM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: Larry Lucido

What about bringing a gun to a fight club?


27 posted on 07/28/2005 8:47:56 PM PDT by nhoward14
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To: Larry Lucido

Depends...how big's the fight?

:-D


28 posted on 07/28/2005 8:48:14 PM PDT by RichInOC (BANG!)
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To: nhoward14

Never mention fight club!


29 posted on 07/28/2005 8:50:40 PM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: Pharmboy
The article doesn't really give many details.

It could have been a 6'-4" foaming-at-the-mouth, club wielding maniac against a 5'-8" ranger. It doesn't even say if the rangers were male or female.

The wife tried to get him to settle down, they pepper sprayed him. Nothing worked.

Maniac got put down.

I suspect crystal meth.

30 posted on 07/28/2005 8:54:31 PM PDT by benjaminjjones
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To: Pharmboy
A camper brandished a club and threatened to kill two park rangers,..

If it was a bear out of control, I bet they would have used bear strength pepper spray. It's OK to shoot the human who doesn't belong in a park.

31 posted on 07/28/2005 8:56:38 PM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts (Some say what's good for others, the others make the goods; it's the meddlers against the peddlers)
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To: TIGHTEN
I'd say don't pull out a gun unless you are going to kill . . .

That reminds me of a "wisdom saying" of the Shadoobies: "Do not pull out your skiwaxwax (their usually lethal, always painful guavgoo-shooter) unless you have your skinning knife."

Faster, Pussycat . . .

32 posted on 07/28/2005 8:58:40 PM PDT by alcuin (crushthebloodoftirantstyrintstirantsTYRANTS)
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To: Pharmboy
Once again Idiot Reporting rears it's ugly bylines.

I am reading about a domestic disturbance at a campground. The "disturber" walks away from the "disturbee" and goes after the 2 Rangers. As he attempts to club Ranger #1, Ranger #2 shoots him, dead. So far so good. Then I see "The man, whose name was withheld pending notification of next of kin, was pronounced dead at the scene." Don'tcha think the "next of kin", being the above "disturbee" already knows?

Sheeeesh!

33 posted on 07/28/2005 9:01:21 PM PDT by Petruchio ( ... .--. .- -.-- / .- -. -.. / -. . ..- - . .-. / .. .-.. .-.. . --. .- .-.. / .- .-.. .. . -. ...)
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To: John Robertson
Domestic disturbances sometimes spill outside the boundaries of the home. I don't know if that's what happened here, but someone was concerned enough to call the uniforms in.

If you're going to defend yourself with a firearm, your object is to shoot to stop the threat.

When the man came within 10 feet of one of the rangers, the ranger used pepper spray, but the man didn't stop, and the second ranger shot him twice, Brock said.

You have a circumstance where the individual had the means (a club in his hand), the opportunity (he was ten feet away from the officers), and the motivation (he was moving toward the officer with club in hand). How long does it take to cover a ten-foot distance? Measure it off on the floor of the room you're in and try it.

In this type of scenario, if I'm armed, I'm shooting to stop the threat.

34 posted on 07/28/2005 9:03:13 PM PDT by dbwz
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To: nhoward14

I've taken enough gun safety courses for everyone on this thread.

I know all the rules.

But whenever something like thisw happens, I am given pause. It's easy to read a brief news story and say, justified. But if he were your buddy, and you knew his kids, you'd be saying, What the hell?

All I'm saying is, there is always a human factor. Unfortunately, every one of these cases is different, so I fully understand why it's safer overall for any defender to have a one hundred percent rule.

By the way, Pharmboy knows plenty about guns.


35 posted on 07/28/2005 9:06:22 PM PDT by John Robertson (Safe Travel)
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To: Pharmboy
Tim Hughes is from San Dimas, not San Demas.. Good old phonetic spelling at work again.

Gonna have to ask what happened when he gets back into town.
36 posted on 07/28/2005 9:07:48 PM PDT by kingu (Draft Fmr Senator Fred Thompson for '08.)
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To: John Robertson
The way I see it, LEOs shoot too many people they shouldn't, and not nearly enough of the ones they should. This is a perfect example of a: doomed if you do - doomed if you don't guy.
37 posted on 07/28/2005 9:08:27 PM PDT by FreedomHasACost (Don't take life so damn seriously...you can't get out of it alive anyway!)
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To: dbwz
You have a circumstance where the individual had the means (a club in his hand), the opportunity (he was ten feet away from the officers), and the motivation (he was moving toward the officer with club in hand). How long does it take to cover a ten-foot distance? Measure it off on the floor of the room you're in and try it.

He was already given quite a gift (the ten foot threshold), much more than he should have been given.

He wasted it and got wasted.

38 posted on 07/28/2005 9:09:39 PM PDT by lightman (The Office of the Keys should be exercised as some ministry needs to be exorcised.)
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To: John Robertson
Was the guy out of control? Of course. Did he deserve to get shot (wounded)? No doubt. Deserve to die? Come on. Go on a camping trip, get into a fight with your wife, and die? I don't especially blame the rangers, but I do see it as a tragic overreaction.

You omitted a small fact. The guy came at the two rangers with a club in hand and verbally threatening to kill both of them. He wasn't dissuaded by pepper spray. Two rounds to the chest put an end to his attack on the rangers.

39 posted on 07/28/2005 9:12:58 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: TIGHTEN

Your rule is better, although mine would cover folks just walking around with a gun in their hand.


40 posted on 07/28/2005 9:15:30 PM PDT by PAR35
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