Don’t Nuke Mecca

Human Events ^ | 7/28/05 | Robert Spencer

[Jean S]

Why not nuke Mecca? Congressman Tom Tancredo (R-CO) has brought the issue to the table. The Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR) has demanded that he apologize to Muslims, and commentators left and right have subjected him to vociferous criticism. Although many have attacked him for the wrong reasons, his suggestion is still wrong.

Primarily, of course, it contravenes Western principles of justice which, if discarded willy-nilly, would remove a key reason why we fight at all: to preserve Western ideas of justice and human rights that are denied by the Islamic Sharia law so beloved of jihad terrorists. But even aside from moral questions, which are increasingly thorny in this post-Hiroshima, post-Dresden world, there are practical reasons to reject what Tancredo has suggested.

Tancredo’s idea, of course, is based on the old Cold War principle of Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD). Both sides threatened each other with nuclear annihilation, and the threats canceled each other out. The Soviets would no more risk Moscow being wiped out than we would Washington.

But applying this principle to present-day Islamic jihad is not so easy. The Soviets did not inculcate into their cadres the idea enunciated by Maulana Inyadullah of al-Qaeda shortly after 9/11: “The Americans love Pepsi-Cola, we love death.” This lust for death runs through the rhetoric of today’s jihadists, and goes back to the Qur’an. Will men who glorify suicide bombing and praise their God for beheadings and massacres fear the destruction of holy sites? It seems unlikely in the extreme — and that fact nullifies all the value this thread may have had as a deterrent.

Others have argued, however, that the deterrent value of destroying Islamic holy sites would lie not in giving jihad terrorists pause, but in showing Islam itself to be false and thus removing the primary motivation of today’s jihad terrorists. If Allah is all-powerful and rewards those who believe in him while hating and punishing the disbelievers (the “vilest of creatures,” according to Qur’an 98:6), wouldn’t he protect his holy sites from these disbelievers?

However, Muslims have weathered such shocks to their system in the past. In 1924, the secular government of Turkey abolished the caliphate; the caliph was considered the successor of the Prophet Muhammad as the religious and political leader of the Islamic community. By abolishing the office, Turkish leader Kemal Ataturk hoped to strike at the heart of political Islam and create a context in which Islam could develop something akin to the Western idea of the separation of religion and state. Instead, his act provided the impetus for the establishment of the Muslim Brotherhood, the first modern Islamic terrorist organization, in Egypt in 1928. The Brotherhood and its offshoots (which include Hamas and Al-Qaeda), and indeed virtually all jihadist groups in the world today, date the misery of the Islamic world to the abolition of the caliphate. The ultimate goal of such groups is the restoration of this office, the reunification of the Islamic world under the caliph, and the establishment of the Sharia as the sole law in Muslim countries. Then the caliph would presumably take up one of his principal duties as stipulated by Islamic law: to wage offensive jihad against non-Muslim states in order to extend Sharia rule to them also.

The abolition of the caliphate, then, accomplished precisely the opposite of what Ataturk hoped it would: it gave the adherents of political Islam a cause around which to rally, recruit, and mobilize. In essence, it gave birth to the crisis that engulfs the world today. It is likely that a destruction of the Ka’aba or the Al-Aqsa Mosque would have the same effect: it would become source of spirit, not of dispirit. The jihadists would have yet another injury to add to their litany of grievances, which up to now have so effectively confused American leftists into thinking that the West is at fault in this present conflict. But the grievances always shift; the only constant is the jihad imperative. Let us not give that imperative even greater energy in the modern world by supplying such pretexts needlessly.

Robert Spencer will be speaking at "The Radical-Islamist Threat to World Peace and National Security" educational symposium on September 21, 2005, hosted by The People's Truth Forum.

[Rodney King]

“The Americans love Pepsi-Cola, we love death.” This lust for death runs through the rhetoric of today’s jihadists, and goes back to the Qur’an.

What this suggests then, is that we ought to launch a first strike and take them out before they can hit us.

[dajeeps]

"I wonder how many Americans would have to get vaporized before nuclear war was on the table... 1 million? 2 million? 20 million? 40 million?"

Nuking is a bit extreme. I like the idea of MOAB much better because it's more environmentally friendly (LOL), but could think of better targets... Tehran, for instance. That would be the only real slam against the Islamofacist movement, and quite well deserving, I might add.

There's absolutely no way to get controll of the terror problem as long as Iran is out there doing as it pleases with its purse wide open to so-call martyrs.

Martyr: One who makes great sacrifices or suffers much in order to further a belief, cause, or principle.

[Freedom Blitz]

"That would be just the first strike....."

A VERY effective strike. Islamic Muslims believe mecca is indestructible. Destroying mecca will prove their entire religion is a sham, just an excuse to abuse women children and infidels.

[SpinnerWebb]

Since 622 A.D., Islam has destroyed every civilization that could not resist its malignancy.

May I have permission to use that as my tag line?

[South40]

I wonder how many Americans would have to get vaporized before nuclear war was on the table... 1 million? 2 million? 20 million? 40 million?

Massachusetts would do.

[etcetera]

"Will men who glorify suicide bombing and praise their God for beheadings and massacres fear the destruction of holy sites?"

Maybe not, but 5 times each day they can ponder the question while praying in the direction of a radioactive hole in the ground.

[InsureAmerica]

""Maybe not, but 5 times each day they can ponder the question while praying in the direction of a radioactive hole in the ground.""


I like it!! and eventually they all will be afflicted by a bald patch

[infidel dog]

You betcha. Use it with my blessing, Mr. Arachnid.

[expatpat]

Where was this twit when we had Mutual Assured Destruction with the Russkies?

[GOPJ]

The abolition of the caliphate, then, accomplished precisely the opposite of what Ataturk hoped it would: it gave the adherents of political Islam a cause around which to rally, recruit, and mobilize.

After MAD there won't be enough Muslims left in the world to worry about. When the "homeland" is radioactive, and oil fields are burning, every country they've gone to war with will seek revenge. And we won't be there to defend them. The strong countries will march in, put out the fires and steal the oil. No one's going to pretend there's a right and wrong when we're gone. It'll be might makes right. And the middle east has never had "might". No one will help them. It's not going to be pretty.... Millions of us would be dead too, but we'll come back. They won't.

[expatpat]

1 million would do it, I think.

[RinaseaofDs]

You know why I don't buy this crap about Muslim's being willing to die for Jihad?

Because we are capturing too many high ranking goat-fornicators.

The guys with their fingers on the trigger are the ones that give up without a fight when they are finally surrounded.

Oh, they talk about taking a bunch of infidels with them rather than be captured, but we keep pulling them out of spider holes and upper bedrooms.

Oddly, the only two really high-ranking guys that died in a hail of gunfire was Saddam's two idiot sons. I quite enjoyed that, actually, but I digress.

I think MAD not only works, but has been working for a at least a couple of years already. Given our reactions to other terrorist attacks, I think the last thing the goat-fornicators expected was GWB invading Afghanistan. Since then they've lost more than 50,000 insurgents in Iraq alone. That's a lot of secret terrorist training down the spider hole.

I also think we've back-channeled what our response to a nuclear or biological attack would actually be:

"Listen Obama, Osama, sorry - whatever. You carry that through and there wouldn't be a lot I'd be able to actually do about adding any restraint to the situation. I'd be forced to bring most of the middle east to 12,000 Centigrade for openers. Actually, I'd probably have to hit you with as many neutron bombs as I've got in my arsenal so that we could maintain the flow of oil to the rest of the Western World. I also don't have to tell you that anyone remotely islamic would be hunted and killed in a way that made what happened to you in Bosnia look like Senior Prom at the all boys Madras. It already happened to you in Europe at the end of the middle ages once for nothing so much as simply being pirates and thieves. If you nuke a major city, in the age of Fox News could you imagine how quickly you'd be rounded up like pit bulls and slaughtered in the streets?"

The guys running this war on their side are cowards, and they are giving suicide missions to idiots. The Japanese were 100 times smarter and braver than these morons and were quite willing to die for their king in WWII. The Japanese understood what Hiroshima meant.

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

You missed something.

The Tancredo option would make Muhammad a liar:

KORAN [9.28] O you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque [Mecca, the Kaaba] after this year; and if you fear poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace if He please; surely Allah is Knowing Wise.

THIS IS NOT FROM AL-QAEDA!

THIS IS JUST A BIT OF WHAT ALL MUSLIMS, INCLUDING SO-CALLED MODERATES, SIGN UP FOR WHEN THEY SAY THE BISMALLAH, "THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH AND MUHAMMAD IS HIS PROPHET"!

KORAN [3.28] Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.

KORAN [4.34] Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

KORAN [4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

KORAN [9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

KORAN [9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair [Ezra] is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

HADITH Sahih Bukhari [4:52:176] Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "

HADITH Sahih Bukhari [4:52:177] Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

HADITH Sahih Bukhari [4:56:791] Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "The Jews will fight with you, and you will be given victory over them so that a stone will say, 'O Muslim! There is a Jew behind me; kill him!' "

HADITH Sahih Muslim [41:6981] Ibn 'Umar reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying:
You will fight against the Jews and you will kill them until even a stone would say: Come here, Muslim, there is a Jew (hiding himself behind me); kill him.

HADITH Sahih Muslim [41:6982] Ubaidullah has reported this hadith with this chain of transmitters (and the Words are):
"There is a Jew behind me."

HADITH Sahih Muslim [41:6983] Abdullah b. 'Umar reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying:
You and the Jews would fight against one another until a stone would say: Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; come and kill him.

HADITH Sahih Muslim [41:6984] Abdullah b. 'Umar reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said:
The Jews will fight against you and you will gain victory over them until the stone would say: Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; kill him.

HADITH Sahih Muslim [41:6985] Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying:
The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

HADITH Sahih Bukhari [4:52:283] Narrated Abu Juhaifa:
I asked Ali, "Do you have the knowledge of any Divine Inspiration besides what is in Allah's Book?" 'Ali replied, "No, by Him Who splits the grain of corn and creates the soul. I don't think we have such knowledge, but we have the ability of understanding which Allah may endow a person with, so that he may understand the Qur'an, and we have what is written in this paper as well." I asked, "What is written in this paper?" He replied, "(The regulations of) blood-money, the freeing of captives, ******** and the judgment that no Muslim should be killed for killing an infidel." *********

HADITH Sunan Abu Dawud [14:2526] Narrated Anas ibn Malik:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist). The tyranny of any tyrant and the justice of any just (ruler) will not invalidate it. One must have faith in Divine decree.

KORAN: http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/
HADITH: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html

[snowrip]

What I want to know is this.... How effing screwed is militant Islam when a billion pissed off, fed-up Christians declare a jihad upon them?

[infidel dog]

Ah, but how do we get a billion Christians fed up and pissed off? That's the sixty-four dollar question, my little droogie.

[FormerLib]

"There are an estimated 400,000 Christian Palestinians today, any of which has as much right to a homeland in Palestine as do Arab Palestinians. When they begin blowing up buses of civilians in Jerusalem, I will agree with Lord Ahmed that the problem is a political one and not a religious one." - Christopher Orlet

[weegee]

If the idea that this was on the table for retaliation to a MAJOR event got some muslims to "out" a terrorist strike, it is worth discussing.

If they believe that their precious meteor will remain, then they will believe life will go on.

I'd be all for notifying people in the region before any detonation.

Muslims did not seem offended when the Taliban blew up ancient Buddhist statues.

[SQUID]

The so called "holy sites" are governmental offices as far as I am concerned. Hell, if an imam has the power to condemn people to death; make political and tactical decisions; establish a government based on the Kuran, then he is subject to the same treatment any sick and despot regime would get. ANY Kuranic government needs to be dismantled just like any Nazi government and rightfully so. There has been over 1400 years of pain and suffering of all of those who lived along any Islamic fault line.

Why would anybody want to give these people the opportunity to become a super power?

The fact is, this is not a religion, but rather an out of date political philosophy rooted in pagan ideas, from pagan Arabic tribes, before Islam was born. Mecca only became "holy" because it was the economic center for trade and that is why Muhammed raped and murdered his way back to Mecca. He knew that if he can control the economic aspect then he can make his way to complete power and control.

Muhammed also borrowed ideas from Jewish and Christian text in order to make conversions more possible. This is when he said that the three religions are equal,later retracting his statement as influenced by the devil when he realized it failed. After his retraction he ordered massive killings to prove his loyalty to his own twisted and made up ideology.

So, ultimately, it's a battle for control and power. However, taking the top of the hill should never be easy. Especially of you are an unpredictable and violent loon.

[Lancelot Jones]

It is irresponsible of Rep. Tancredo to initiate this "national debate" while 30,000+ Americans work and live in Saudi Arabia.

It shows that he lacks the intelligence to become any kind of a leader.

Beauseant!