America's Hiroshima: America's Date with Disaster - (take this seriously!

CHRONWATCH.COM ^ | JULY 26, 2005 | Barbara J. Stock

[CHARLITE]

"For instance, if you were Jabba the Hutt, would Babs "rubber check" Boxer date you?"

[atlanta67]

""Still some want it to happen so they can blame it on President Bush""

I think youre right. I also think they want it to happen via Mexico, so we will deport all the illegals

[atlanta67]

""For instance, if you were Jabba the Hutt, would Babs "rubber check" Boxer date you?""

i am on the right web site?

[hippyhater]

Art Bell had some one on his show who said the same thing.. Very interesting

[festus]

Whatever......

[A CA Guy]

Meaning if the Vatican, Israel, England, Australia or America gets hit with a nuke... I consider THAT the threshold for actually postal on a much wider range of Islam.

As it is, I don't anymore personally buy that hardly any of Islam is peaceful. I think they are mostly terrorists or applaud terrorists from what I keep on seeing.

Sure, I think there are the most free version of Islam perhaps here in America, because out rights to freedom allows an Islamic woman to open her mouth and speak, whereas if she was in another Islamic country, she is good for only sex, slaughter and as a possible human shield.

Islam is a cult and nothing more based on all I've seen in recent years.

[A CA Guy]

I think if they saw the hell hounds the supposed virgins in the afterlife were for their cowarly acts, that they would right away denounce Islam for Christianity or Judaism.

[calenel]

On the contrary, I not only proved them, I LINKED to the answers. For instance: Beryllium trigger isotopes can have as little as a 53 day half-life. Polonium 210, a Man-made isotope that can *only* be created in nuclear reactors or cyclotrons, has a 140 day half-life.

Actually polonium is a naturally occurring element, including po-210. It was discovered in 1898 by Mme. Curie. It is rare, but it does occur in nature. It is simply easier to make it from the more abundant bismuth or lead than to try to separate it from the uranium ore, or to try to separate the 25 isotopes from each other. And po-210 is proportionately more rare due to its short half life. The interesting thing about that link is that it describes how to refine polonium using purely physical processes (melting, evaporating) which you claimed were not possible.

[Black Tooth]

The plan is to kill at least four million Americans in an instant. Osama has insisted that the bombs be placed in such a manner that at least two million of the dead are children. The “Day of Islam,” bin Laden believes, will be the day America surrenders to Islam.

That'll be the day...

You think?

How soon we forget.

They brutally murdered 3,000 Americans without any bomb, by using box cutters. Not to mention driving the economy off the cliff for some years.

[Southack]

"polonium is a naturally occurring element, including po-210. It was discovered in 1898 by Mme. Curie. It is rare, but it does occur in nature. It is simply easier to make it from the more abundant bismuth or lead than to try to separate it from the uranium ore, or to try to separate the 25 isotopes from each other. And po-210 is proportionately more rare due to its short half life. The interesting thing about that link is that it describes how to refine polonium using purely physical processes (melting, evaporating) which you claimed were not possible." - calenel

You're confusing laboritory amounts with practical amounts. The two quantities are vastly different.

Polonium in nature is Po-209. Polonium for an atomic bomb is Po-210.

Polonium in nature is found in miniscule quantities per ton of Uranium ore. Uranium is rare. Polonium, however, even Po-209, makes Uranium look as common as sand.

Po-210 can occur, briefly, in Nature, in microscopic amounts that could never have practical use.

You can make Po-210 from the dust on your computer monitor, though you'd be hard-pressed to find civilian access to an instrument sensitive enough to confirm what you've done, and in 140 days it would for all intents and purposes be almost gone. Likewise, a cyclotron can make tiny amounts of Po-210...but all of that borders on the hypothetical. Oh, you can do it, but in such tiny quantities as to make no difference in the world.

To actually make Po-210 fast enough to accumulate enough for an atomic trigger (before it has decayed or evaporated away), you have to have a working nuclear reactor.

"Uranium ores contain only about 100 micrograms of the element per ton. Its abundance is only about 0.2% of that of radium. In 1934, it was found that when natural bismuth (209Bi) was bombarded by neutrons, 210Bi, the parent of polonium, was obtained. Milligram amounts of polonium may now be prepared this way, by using the high neutron fluxes of nuclear reactors. Polonium-210 is a low-melting, fairly volatile metal, 50% of which is vaporized in air in 45 hours at 55C. It is an alpha emitter with a half-life of 138.39 days. A milligram emits as many alpha particles as 5 g of radium. The energy released by its decay is so large (140W/g) that a capsule containing about half a gram reaches a temperature above 500C."

[calenel]

"Please give us your qualifications to understand the proof if it were given to you.

Only then can we judge.

Your level of 'proof' might be right up there with a failure to grasp the meaning of 'is'."

Did you read the other thread or are you just doing the enraged chimpanzee thing and throwing crap around because that's all you got? Before demanding other's qualifications, please post your own.

Scenario: Improvised Nuclear Device. What are the technological challenges and the minimum requirements for a small nuclear weapon to be smuggled and assembled inside the US.

I say you only need two hard-to-get components for a 'Fat Man' style plutonium weapon (high grade conventional explosives being considered not-too-difficult on this scale), the plutonium and the initiator (sticking to 'Fat Man' this would be a polonium/beryllium construct). No one on that other thread has provided an example of a technological hurdle that could not be overcome, either in the transport of those two components (plutonium and polonium) or in the construction of the rest of the device. My position is that the plutonium itself is the only real obstacle. That is, getting enough of it to be useful and getting it secretly so as to be able to smuggle it into the US without the US government's awareness. I am willing to listen to reasoned responses.

[calenel]

Allow me to quote my own post to you:

"It is simply easier to make it from the more abundant bismuth or lead than to try to separate it from the uranium ore, or to try to separate the 25 isotopes from each other."

For the miniscule amount required - even to have the excess to extend the effective half-life - simply ask the mullahs in Iran to siphon off a little (or do you think they don't know how?). Or that dictator in North Korea, or any other reactor-possessing hostile power you might think would want to see the US hurt (say, France). It really wouldn't be that hard. It is produced for medical and other research. You can order it from Oak Ridge if you have the right credentials.

[shezza]

I've forgotten nothing. In fact, my darling husband is in Afghanistan right now fighting against these thugs. No, I've not forgotten. Where bin Laden is mistaken is his comment that their terrorism will cause America to surrender to Islam. No freakin' way.

[BayouCoyote]

BUMP!

[philman_36]

...not that such a double capture would end global terrorism, but it would be a great psychological hit.
Such a capture might also be the very thing that activates the cells.
A real "Catch-22".

[Marysecretary]

Yeah, that worries me. You always think of these things as being in the far future but I think the future is here or very close. I don't worry for myself but I do for my kids and grandchildren and others who are unsaved. BUT, all the prophecies I've read lately talk about the church arising and growing stronger. We're to have peace in the midst of tribulation.

[Cyber Liberty]

Correct. The force of the explosion diminishes rapidly as you move out from the epicenter (inverse of the distance squared).

Also, the thunder would be, let see....100 miles, 5 seconds (roughly) per mile, so about 8 1/2 minutes after the "pop".

[Southack]

"For the miniscule amount required - even to have the excess to extend the effective half-life - simply ask the mullahs in Iran to siphon off a little (or do you think they don't know how?). Or that dictator in North Korea, or any other reactor-possessing hostile power you might think would want to see the US hurt (say, France). It really wouldn't be that hard. It is produced for medical and other research. You can order it from Oak Ridge if you have the right credentials." - calenel

Oak Ridge won't sell enough Po-210 in sum in any 140 day period to make a single atomic trigger, no matter what your credentials.

Iran's reactor isn't working yet; it is a non-entity for all *existing* weapons.

North Korea is grappling with the technical hurdles in making enough Po-210 fast enough for their own nuclear test. Frankly, my money says that Iran will have a successful nuclear test before North Korea and that neither will be able to test this year.

So there's a prediction that you can fact check me on over the next 5 months. I'll be right while you are still in wide-eyed panic.

[slowhandluke]

For one thing, it assumes our President and other leaders will be cowards,

My argument does not assume such a thing to be true. It only assumes that AlQueda believes such a thing; and they clearly stated that the Somalia adventure proved such a thing. Neither you nor I may agree with them, but that won't change their minds a whit.

It also presumes that these barbarians are patient to the extreme.

Well, it does propose that the leaders have a longer term vision than the 4-year US Election cycle, and way, way longer than the quagmire-talking media. Islam does have a long term goal to conquer the world, and the strategy I noted is one that they have used before, so it makes sense that OBL might be using it again.

I don't think it's patience in the Western sense; as in delaying gratification while patiently working through a war to get the to the other side. I believe that OBL, and many other muslims, are quite happy to make violent war against infidels their lifes work, and also the lifes work for their children and grandchildren. Thus they take their gratification in violence now, with only enough patiences to keep the violence level low enough they don't get nuked out of existence.

I'm not as sanquine about the rest of the world as you are. China is willing to be vicious against any uprising, so they will be ok. The Phillipines is hurting, but the news from Manila is equivocal about whether they can get organized to fight off the muslim insurrection yet again. Thailand has trouble, but the Buddhists have a poor historical record in fighting Islam. Pakistan makes a pretense, but the number of radical madrassas has gone up 10-fold.

These people are cold-blooded killers, and while not stupid they are quite insane,...

You might consider OBL to be insane in his motives and goals, but that doesn't mean he isn't quite rational in his methods. What I've described is a strategy for a smaller group to attack the allies and morale of a larger group. It's a strategy to keep the enemy too confused and demoralized to fight effectively. It's a war of attrition, but unlike the Western way of attrition, it's fought in slow motion, more like a frog-boil than Patton's Third Army tank attacks. It's a strategy out of the Koran, and one that has worked. It's been used in Viet Nam and Afganistan. OBL is quite familiar with it.

Part of such a strategy is to get the opposition confused so that they have no idea what's comming next. Like maybe getting them to believe you are insane and therefore unpredictable.

If OBL had patience, he might wait until Pakistan and Iran and Iraq and Algeria all had the bomb, and enough delivery mechanisms to wipe the US out. He isn't that patient, so if he does get his hands on a couple, he'll make the best use of the few he gets. Since he gets only one blow, it'll have to be the last blow. The strategy I suggested is one that fits his needs.

Take a look at the troubles in Iraq. There were idiots who stood up and got shot after somebody dissed their mommas. However, somebody else did take the time to either infiltrate the water department, or subvert somebody in the water department to find the best place to put a bomb to disable the Bagdad water supply. The idiots might be dead, but they were useful in keeping attention away from the people doing the big damage, (and maybe useful in improving the Arab gene pool). They don't all have to be rational. It might serve their interests to have a few less-than-bright ones out in front, to provide cover for the bright ones burrowing in behind the noise.

It's been noted that it's almost impossible to convert a muslim to any other religion. We probably have to find a way to do so, as I doubt any Western government has the stomach for the alternative.

The Western governments don't have the stomach to name the enemy. 'Religion of Peace', indeed! (spit!). Using the term 'insurrection', for a foreign invasion is another indication of unwillingness to see the truth. Avoiding the word 'terrorist' for those who claim the point of their actions is to spread terror is another idiocy. If you don't properly identify your enemy, you will surely misestimate or underestimate them.

[kalee]

the rage would be unlike anything the world has ever witnessed.


AMEN!