Posted on 07/25/2005 5:07:52 AM PDT by MadIvan
The Brazilian man shot dead by police in south London, who mistook him for a suicide bomber, had been in Britain on an out-of-date visa, officials say.
Jean Charles de Menezes, 27, may have run from police because of his visa situation, BBC correspondents say.
The electrician had come to the UK on a student visa, which allows people to work for a small number of hours.
Relatives of Mr Menezes are considering suing over the Stockwell Tube shooting, saying police will have "to pay".
Meanwhile, detectives are still hunting for the men who attempted to blow up three London Tube trains and a bus last Thursday.
Three men have been arrested so far, but it is thought the four would-be bombers are still free and may have access to explosives.
Meanwhile, Chris Fox, president of the Association of Chief Police Officers, gave his support to the Metropolitan Police's "shoot-to-kill" policy with potential suicide bombers, in the wake of Friday's shooting of Mr Menezes.
"Shoot-to-kill is very good headline but, in fact, what we have to do is have a series of tactics which range from disruption to the very, very final moment when you have to shoot and the aim is to prevent the criminal or suspect causing harm to other people," he said.
Under surveillance
However, the victim's cousin, Alex Pereira, who is based in London, said: "[The police] have to pay for [Friday's killing] in many ways, because if they do not, they are going to kill many people, they are going to kill thousands of people.
"They just kill the first person they see, that's what they did.
"They killed my cousin, they could kill anyone."
Mr Menezes was killed after fleeing armed police as he travelled to work.
He had been followed by police from his block of flats in Tulse Hill, which was under surveillance in the hunt for the group behind Thursday's attempted bombings.
Mr Menezes had boarded the number 2 bus to Stockwell.
Police said his padded jacket had heightened suspicions about his journey. He was shot as he ran on to a train.
Heavy coats or clothing are often worn by suicide bombers in other parts of the world to help them disguise their bombs.
The Independent Police Complaints Commission has opened an investigation into the circumstances surrounding the death.
In Brazil, relatives are demanding answers to why Mr Menezes ran and why he was shot by police.
Cousin Maria do Socorro, speaking before details about the visa emerged, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "I think they acted incompetently, like amateurs.
"You would think the British police would be prepared, but they are panicking and seeing everyone as a suspect.
"If you are going to have a war on terror, you have got to use brains to fight it not just brute force."
Friends of Mr Menezes in London said he had recently returned to Brazil for eight months to be with his father, who was being treated for cancer.
'Highly trained'
Fausto Soares, 26, said Mr Menezes had been sending money to pay for the treatment and was concerned how the family would now cope financially.
Former Prime Minister Sir John Major has defended the police's actions.
Speaking on the Today programme, Sir John said: "These officers are very highly trained. Very few of them are permitted to carry arms, but in that second they had no-one to help them, no-one to turn to.
"They had to make a decision. Do we take this dreadful decision to shoot, or do we face the risk that conceivably, if our worst fears are right, a bomb could be detonated that could kill people, including them, in the next second or so?"
Well, yes, there was another logical outcome.
We should shoot all illegals and criminals who run from the police. Funny thing, growing up in Okla I ALWAYS assumed cops could already do that. Kept me outta trouble. I assumed they could shoot at me or my car if I ran. I told my 21 year old son that and since he grew up in the 80s and 90s he thinks I am crazy. He thinks cops are helpless and that they can't chase you or shoot at you. Maybe they should all be allowed to shoot to kill anyone who runs from them or fights arrest. Fine by me.
Just what I was thinking! The building was under surveillance ..... what was he doing there, besides the fact that he was there illegally in the first place....
My words exactly. I see the grief of course...but the first thing you think about is suing...not right. I can think of eight steps and lots of time till you got to that state of mind...even in a police shooting.
Maybe it's past time for deportations.
I respectfully beg to differ. I’m sure US cops don’t normally shoot at people running away from them, but I would wager a small fortune that this would change if the US was attacked by suicide bombers (I’m ignoring the 9/11 attacks for this purpose as those weren’t your average suicide bomber attack).
Note they did not shoot him just for running away, but because he was heading for a tube train. Quite why they shot him there but allowed him to get on a bus is something to ponder but that’s sort of beside the point.
The real problem was that the guy was not expecting armed police to challenge him. People in London will think differently now.
Captain Hyperbole strikes again.
Indeed. He committed suicide.
However, the victim's cousin, Alex Pereira, who is based in London, said: "[The police] have to pay for [Friday's killing] in many ways, because if they do not, they are going to kill many people, they are going to kill thousands of people.
Sounds like it is time to deport "London-based" Sr. Pereira.
"Five shots to the head for an expired visa?"
No -- five shots to the head for refusing to halt/freeze when asked to do so.
The BBC just says the block of flats he came from was under surveillance. There are a lot of people in one block of flats.
Not when you suspect he is trying to detonate a suicide bomb, they don't.
It was a good, clean kill and there is nothing they should have done differently.
All the deceased needed to do was cooperate. Don't blame the police because he was a suicidal moron.
I've read that he lived in an apartment building (block of flats), not a house. Apparently, other residents of the building had terrorist connections.
note to self, Make sure Visa is not expired. also, Do not run from the police.
Did you read my whole post? I said pretty much the same thing.
So what is five in the head?
"Two in the head, you know they're dead"
Five in the head, they know they're dead!
Exactly. If you don't want to be shot at, beat up, etc. by the police then don't run from them.
If you call being in that situation (illegal) after all that had happened there, you'd think you could be more careful...knowing they're looking for a certain type...
I focus on the situation...I mean what does a terrorist look like? We have Muslims from Indonesia, Albania, Phillipines, Germany...
You look at the behavior. Everyone would be singing another tune had they done nothing and the video showed the explosion and people dying or dead (if he was carrying). London has been hit back to back...even with their amazing security measures. I'm sure the cops have been under extreme pressure to start with.
Sure it was horrible, I can't imagine being a member of his family and what they're going through...
I have a feeling this is still not the end of the story.
You mean how to set your trigger to be more sensitive?
And he had come from an apartment that was under surveillance due to possible terrorist activity there. The scenario could not have been much more suspicious. What surprised me was that the police physically captured him, then shot him (at least that's how I understood it). But today I read the explanation; that a wounded terrorist still can detonate a bomb.
I agree with you both. There may be some unanswered questions about him.
:) That would be helpful, but I don't think that's what the ACLU (Lib- USSR) would have in mind.
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