Posted on 07/25/2005 5:07:52 AM PDT by MadIvan
The Brazilian man shot dead by police in south London, who mistook him for a suicide bomber, had been in Britain on an out-of-date visa, officials say.
Jean Charles de Menezes, 27, may have run from police because of his visa situation, BBC correspondents say.
The electrician had come to the UK on a student visa, which allows people to work for a small number of hours.
Relatives of Mr Menezes are considering suing over the Stockwell Tube shooting, saying police will have "to pay".
Meanwhile, detectives are still hunting for the men who attempted to blow up three London Tube trains and a bus last Thursday.
Three men have been arrested so far, but it is thought the four would-be bombers are still free and may have access to explosives.
Meanwhile, Chris Fox, president of the Association of Chief Police Officers, gave his support to the Metropolitan Police's "shoot-to-kill" policy with potential suicide bombers, in the wake of Friday's shooting of Mr Menezes.
"Shoot-to-kill is very good headline but, in fact, what we have to do is have a series of tactics which range from disruption to the very, very final moment when you have to shoot and the aim is to prevent the criminal or suspect causing harm to other people," he said.
Under surveillance
However, the victim's cousin, Alex Pereira, who is based in London, said: "[The police] have to pay for [Friday's killing] in many ways, because if they do not, they are going to kill many people, they are going to kill thousands of people.
"They just kill the first person they see, that's what they did.
"They killed my cousin, they could kill anyone."
Mr Menezes was killed after fleeing armed police as he travelled to work.
He had been followed by police from his block of flats in Tulse Hill, which was under surveillance in the hunt for the group behind Thursday's attempted bombings.
Mr Menezes had boarded the number 2 bus to Stockwell.
Police said his padded jacket had heightened suspicions about his journey. He was shot as he ran on to a train.
Heavy coats or clothing are often worn by suicide bombers in other parts of the world to help them disguise their bombs.
The Independent Police Complaints Commission has opened an investigation into the circumstances surrounding the death.
In Brazil, relatives are demanding answers to why Mr Menezes ran and why he was shot by police.
Cousin Maria do Socorro, speaking before details about the visa emerged, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "I think they acted incompetently, like amateurs.
"You would think the British police would be prepared, but they are panicking and seeing everyone as a suspect.
"If you are going to have a war on terror, you have got to use brains to fight it not just brute force."
Friends of Mr Menezes in London said he had recently returned to Brazil for eight months to be with his father, who was being treated for cancer.
'Highly trained'
Fausto Soares, 26, said Mr Menezes had been sending money to pay for the treatment and was concerned how the family would now cope financially.
Former Prime Minister Sir John Major has defended the police's actions.
Speaking on the Today programme, Sir John said: "These officers are very highly trained. Very few of them are permitted to carry arms, but in that second they had no-one to help them, no-one to turn to.
"They had to make a decision. Do we take this dreadful decision to shoot, or do we face the risk that conceivably, if our worst fears are right, a bomb could be detonated that could kill people, including them, in the next second or so?"
Regards, Ivan
Ping!
The situation is unfortunate.
It was caused by the terrorists.
Exactly. If anyone made a bad decision, it was the victim. Under the circumstances, I think they police were justified. Don't run - simple as that.
Get legal, don't run. It's pretty simple.
No, he shouldn’t have fled, but maybe he wouldn’t have even given thought to being a terrorist suspect himself, seeing as he was from South America. The police did what they felt they had to, but it’s still a sad mistake.
He was wearing a heavy padded overcoat in the middle of summer on a day when the temperatures were in the mid to upper 70's. And, when told to halt, he fled and jumped the turnstile.
If I was the police I would have come to the same conclusion.
Former PM John Majors said it:
"They had to make a decision. Do we take this dreadful decision to shoot, or do we face the risk that conceivably, if our worst fears are right, a bomb could be detonated that could kill people, including them, in the next second or so?"
***
And the guy was wearing a heavy padded coat...he did not stop as ordered...also some news reports here said he was being watched as he left a building that had been under surveillance and headed for the station.
Sorry he was killed accidentally, but then again, he brought this on himself.
Note to self:
Call Home Office
Pick up milk at the shop
Bid for that bullet proof vest on Ebay.co.uk...
Especially into a train station.
"Two in the head, you know they're dead" - Samuel L. Jackson in Pulp Fiction
So what is five in the head?
what's the deal? cop says stop, you keep running, you get shot.
if cops had kept this policy, we'd have most likely have less crime. knowing you might get shot is a good deterent to crime.
Agreed. The cops weren't looking to kill anyone that day. I'm sure they will always feel terrible about it.
From what I heard I would have done the same as the policemen.
I wish some of those who are so outraged by this would transfer their anger to the real source of the problem - the terrorists themselves.
"expired visa"
That answers why he was running away. It didn't make any sense before.
He did make a bad decision at a bad time.
This would not have happened in the US. American cops have a lot more experience dealing with guns. The rules of engagement preclude shooting someone just because he's running away.
This is the kind of thing that happens when you have a society that isn't familiar with the use of firearms.
He was running onto a train. The officers were utilising procedures imported from Israel and I trust the Israeli experience on this.
Regards, Ivan
Potential alternative reason for running – he was from Brazil, where armed men aren’t people you stop to chat with.
They screwed up, as even they now admit.
People that have nothing to hide don't run from the police. Under the circumstances, the police made the right decision. It still wouldn't surprise me if there was more to this young man than we know right now. He, or the house he was in, was being watched for some reason.
There are definitely some unanswered questions about this guy.
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