LONDON Suspect's killing by police rattles a city on edge

San Francisco Chronicile ^ | 7/23/05 | Alan Cowell, NYT

[ppaul]

London -- At about 10 a.m. on a sunny, summery Friday morning, London crossed a once-unthinkable line in its unfolding war on terror.

In a city where most police officers do not carry guns, the shock from the shooting death of a man in a subway car was palpable. It raised questions about police firearms practices, kindled uncertainty among Muslims and deepened the anxiety of a city that looks, these days, under siege.

The police said they had trailed a man, described as South Asian in appearance, from a house in Stockwell, a hardscrabble neighborhood of South London. He was clad in bulky clothes on a warm summer's day, witnesses said. He vaulted over a turnstile and dashed onto a train, with plainclothes police officers right behind him.

The police said the man did not obey orders to stop, so the officers shouted at the passengers to get down and take cover.

The man stumbled onto a train, and a passenger, Mark Whitby, told the BBC: "I looked at his face. He looked sort of left and right, but he basically looked like a cornered rabbit, a cornered fox. He looked absolutely petrified, and then he sort of tripped, but they were hotly pursuing him."

The officers "couldn't have been any more than two or three feet behind him at this time," Whitby said, "and he half tripped and was half pushed to the floor, and the policeman nearest to me had the black automatic pistol in his left hand."

The officer with the gun "held it down to the guy and unloaded five shots into him," Whitby said.

[Mister Da]

First, let me say that I am all for killing terrorists, lots of them, anytime, anywhere!

That said, have you noticed that police are saying very little about this particular guy - unlike the 7/7 bombers whose names & brief histories were quickly available. Have you seen a picture or heard his name or nationality? I haven't! If you have, let me have a link to your info.

What if he was just a regular ol' citizen trying to catch a subway while listening to some tunes - totally unaware of anyone following him! Haven't we all be so preoccupied with something that we would not notice a snake at our feet! If he had his cd player/radio up loud, he couldn't hear the police shouts to stop!

I am not trying to place blame here, but I do want to know (and I want police to know) the best way to "neutralize" the terrorists while assuring the safety of the public.

Clearly, the police action of putting 5 shots into his head suggests that police believed he had a bomb, yet they have said he was a suspect who was under surveillance. Why was he allowed to enter the subway at all? Wouldn't it be prudent to arrest/shoot him in the open, rather than the enclosed/crowded spaces of the subway?

IMHO, random searches INSIDE the subways are DOOMED to failure! Why? These scumbags are not robots - they don't have to wait til they sit down to detonate - they can do it at any time. In the stairwells, in the turnstile line, while waiting to be searched - anywhere, anytime! And if they get ahold to some type of chemical or biological stuff, injuries & death will no-longer be confined to a small area. So, why not search above ground?

Seems to me it would be far more effective to start detaining & questioning massive numbers of suspects, and searching their homes & businesses. Hoping to catch a bomber in public before he can press the button is a game we are sure to lose!

Look at Israel. Their relative success (good, but not perfect) is based on a WALL & extensive checkpoints with serious searches of pedestrians & vehicles. Not practical in a society where the enemy is part of that society.

So, you can start searching EVERYBODY, or, search the people you believe are responsible. Which do you think will be the most productive in protecting the lives of the public?

[sheik yerbouty]

He was a jihadist imbecile..

[sheik yerbouty]

Isn't it strange that the muzzies are forbidden alcohol, but so love whine?

[MadIvan]

It is getting very annoying. I'm really not interested in how they feel, because they appear to be totally uninterested in how the rest of their fellow citizens feel. Either you're part of this country like ths Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews and Sikhs are, or you're not. If you're not, get out.

Regards, Ivan

[sheik yerbouty]

Set the soccer yobs on them..

[Grampa Dave]

That is what I posted after the 7/7 attacks.

Close down some scheduled soccer matches due to terrorism threats and let the Yobs clean up London.

[Canard]

You guys seem to have an inflated opinion of the abilities of football hooligans.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure how the ability to drink copious amounts of lager, take ones shirt off and then stand behind a line of police posturing, chanting aggressively and gesticulating is going to be much of a help in this situation....

[sheik yerbouty]

They wiil have something constructive to do..

[sheik yerbouty]

They have a choice of many jihadistans to choose ftom. Let them go there.

[Canard]

"That said, have you noticed that police are saying very little about this particular guy - unlike the 7/7 bombers whose names & brief histories were quickly available. Have you seen a picture or heard his name or nationality? I haven't! If you have, let me have a link to your info."

It's looking less likely that he was involved. See here:

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1190065,00.html

"A police statement said: "We believe we now know the identity of the man shot at Stockwell Underground station by police, although he is still subject to formal identification.

"We are now satisfied that he was not connected with the incidents of Thursday 21st July 2005.

"For somebody to lose their life in such circumstances is a tragedy and one that the Metropolitan Police Service regrets.""

That doesn't look great to be honest.

[BookaT]

Just so the people that didn't catch it the first time..

The police said they had trailed a man, described as South Asian in appearance, from a house in Stockwell, a hardscrabble neighborhood of South London.

I think the coppers knew something more about this guy before he jumped the turnstile.

Any thoughts?

[Canard]

Yes, sounds like this guy had already been under surveilance - I think he must have done more to arouse suspicions than simply wearing a big coat and jumping a ticket barrier.

I'm looking for more on this now, this story has more info:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1705147,00.html

"Police are describing him as an “intimate accomplice of the cell”. His name and address were thought to have been found among the possessions left by the would-be bombers on Thursday."

That gives us more of a clue as to why he was being followed.

[chgomac]

Are you old enough to remember Kruschev? That crafty old commie came right out and said there was no need to fight the USA & the West--they could be destroyed from within.

New enemy--same tactic

[AmericanInTokyo]

Also, Israel primarily looks for the PEOPLE who can potentially carry out an attack.

We here in the benevolent, politically correct West, look for the TOOLS that can be potentially used in carrying out an attack.

Since the TOOLS can vary into hundreds of different forms, but the PEOPLE cannot vary that much, we waste our time with the West approach and in not adopting the Israel approach.

[AmericanInTokyo]

What usually comes out first and unfiltered is what the truth is. It gets spun by the agenda-ites with a political correctness hatchet in their hands, and the first victim is always the TRUTH.

[AlexW]

"They didn't take that chance, and I for one applaud them for it"

I hope no one intrepreted my post as being critical of the police.
It just seemed a bit strange in these days of PC.
If it had happened in the US, Jessie and crowd would be calling for a lynching of the cops.

I also think it is good that they took him out if they knew him to be connected, weather he had a bomb or not. Save the money and also avoid some wacko judge letting him off.

I was also curious if they found anything on him, even a trace.

[Enterprise]

The PC crowd would be more comfortable to have let the man escape, and maybe murder a couple of dozen people later. I think the time has arrived for English Police Officers to "shoot first, ask questions later."

[Irish_Thatcherite]

It's a crying shame all those brown IRA guys commited all that terrorism against good white folk like yourself, or when those brown guys blew up the Oklahoma federal building. Stormfront is a little further down the web, I think you made a wrong turn somewhere.

I thought the IRA are green!

[o_zarkman44]

Their common bond is Communism/Socialism.
The end goal justifies the means no matter who or how many are harmed by their activities.

[Calpernia]

I totally agree. Just trying to make clear to, whomever I responded to, that deporting Middle Easterners wouldn't make anyone safer.

bump!