Spend $16.99 so you can wear this to your grave
Posted on 07/22/2005 11:06:07 AM PDT by BigFinn
Reacting to the NYPD's announcement Thursday afternoon that police would randomly—but routinely—search the bags of commuters, one concerned New Yorker quickly created a way for civil libertarians to make their views black-and-white. In a few outraged moments, local immigrant rights activist Tony Lu designed t-shirts bearing the text, "i do not consent to being searched." The minimalist protest-wear can be purchased here, in various styles and sizes. (Lu will not get a cut. The shirts' manufacture, sale, and shipment, will be handled by the online retailer. Lu encourages budget-conscious New Yorkers to make their own and wear them everywhere.)
Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly had announced the legally obvious—that New Yorkers are free to decline a search and "turn around and leave." But Lu, who is a lawyer at Urban Justice Center, warned that even well-intentioned cops could interpret people's natural nervousness or anger as "reasonable suspicion." The possibility of unjustified interrogation and even arrest is real, Lu said.
Although police promised they would not engage in racial profiling, Lu said that, as with all street-level policing, people of color and poor immigrants would be particularly vulnerable, especially if encounters lead to arrests.
We live in strange times. I don't like the thought of being blown to bits one bit, but I'd rather be blown up than wake up one day to discover that I'm living in a police state. Don't get me wrong, I respect a police presence but if this random search stuff starts getting out of hand, I'll be the first to scream 1984. There is a fine line between the order that Locke had in mind with security by the state and the "freedom is slavery" that Orwell could foresee in war fed paranoia.
I don't have a concealed carry permit, so it's never been an issue. I'm not sure what they'd do in that situation. Hypothetically, I'd declare it. This is Seattle, after all. :-)
Not at all - just that Mayor Bloominidiot doesn't understand the difference between private entities and public places.
The police, in fact, have made random searches of cars entering the Lincoln and Holland tunnels so that has already happened.
These searches did not become institutionalized. The searches were not extended to the city's streets, parks, and apartment houses.
New York is a city of people just waiting to become litigants. Everyone "knows their rights" and knows a lawyer. The picture you paint of New York City police becoming the Gestapo is not realistic. The Village Voice used that argument to oppose every move that Rudy Guiliani made for 8 years and would gladly have driven him from office if they could. New York would have been the poorer if they had.
My opinion is that, as citizens, we have both rights and responsibilities. One responsibility, in my opinion, is to cooperate with law enforcement--especially since we don't have the kind of security system that exists in London and New York is still on the terrorists' hit list.
This war is not only without particular nations to fight, it is also without defined, envisioned or even expected victory.
No, it isn't a poor choice of words. It's a poor choice of tactics. And, IMO, it's a violation of the Constitution.
Random is the correct word to describe the searches, because they ARE random.
They want to help stop this stuff, but if we are just going to argue back and forth, then guess who wins? Yup the terrorists.
The terrorists will win if we don't find them and kill them. They are committed to either kill us or convert us. Random searches will not find them, other than one or two by chance here and there.
I agree and go one step further. Every time a our way of life is changed due to "random" searches or other invasive measures. They win a small victory.
Well, if you've spotted someone who's acting suspicious, you've already established something the random search does not incorporate, and that is 'probable cause.' It's a whole different kettle of fish from just walking up to anybody in the street and requiring them to let you search their bag.
Sorry, but how is a random search going to change my life? I don't understand.
It isn't going to change your life. However, some believe that they are on the barricades facing down a snarling American government that is just looking for the opportunity to limit individual rights and re-cast society into a brutal totalitarian state that would make 1984 look like a progressive summer camp for the children of rich hippie parents.
During WWII - we rationed everything (practically) - do you see anything being rationed today ..??
During WWII - we had lights out at 9 pm on the west coast - and we were required to have blackout shades on our windows - do you see that requirement in place today ..??
During WWII - my dad was an air raid warden; his job was to stop any vehicle which was driving around during the air raid. He worked the street where we lived and an adjoining street. He was a citizen volunteer - do you see any of that in place today ..??
And .. nobody thought their civil liberties were being violated - while we were trying to protect ourselves against an attack.
Everything changes and always had. I once sat on a plane next to an old woman who thought the loss of silverware and linen napkins on cross country flights was a tragedy.
Not to compare the trivial with the important, but everything really does change, always.
I agree with you 100%.
That was a world war against global powers. There was the very real possibility that the United States would have been invaded. People didn't mind sacrificing and there was an expectation that at some point things would end and society would return to normal. The current enemy is a tiny, unseen force who's primary weapon is fear through attacks on the populace. How can the government ever claim that this enemy has been defeated if it can't even be seen? At what point do security measures get relaxed? In my opinion, the war against terror will be never ending. It's up to the citizens to make sure that government doesn't overstep the constitution in it's quest to protect the public.
And the WOT is a "world war against global powers". The fact they don't wear a military uniform, but the uniform of a religion.
"The current enemy is a tiny, unseen force" .. I don't agree with your assessment that the terrorists are "tiny" or "unseen". These people are in 70 nations - that's not "tiny". And .. everywhere they go DEATH follows .. that's not "unseen".
While the WOT will not have an ending as in the past - where there is surrender - it will be neutered to the point that people will begin to realize this is NOT a major issue anymore. I believe it can reach this point. How long it will take .. I don't have that answer .. but you're right .. we - the citizens - have to make sure that we are protected but not denied our Constitutional rights.
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