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There are apologists amongst us
Guardian ^ | 07/21/05 | Norman Geras

Posted on 07/20/2005 7:38:30 PM PDT by Pikamax

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To: Russ

Another avenue of exploration is that the apologists themselves are the root cause of the attacks. There is much evidence that Osama bin Laden and his terrorist buddies believe the west is weak because their perception of the west is formed what they see and hear in the western media. And of course the bulk of the western media projects the opinions and views of the same weak apologists. The MSM projects an image of handwringing weakness, low cultural self esteem, limpwristed sniveling fairies and whiners. To a terrorist bully that's a screaming invitation. Apologism just may be one the root contributing causes of terrorism. They stopped fearing and respecting us because of years of projecting self-hating leftist apologism.


21 posted on 07/21/2005 12:37:03 AM PDT by Rightwing Conspiratr1 (Lock-n-load!)
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1

"Apologism just may be one the root contributing causes of terrorism. They stopped fearing and respecting us because of years of projecting self-hating leftist apologism."


Bingo. You win the door prize.


22 posted on 07/21/2005 12:52:47 AM PDT by flaglady47
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To: Pikamax; Lando Lincoln; quidnunc; .cnI redruM; Valin; yonif; SJackson; dennisw; monkeyshine; ...
Norman Geras:

...Ever on the lookout for damning causes, the root-causers never go for the most obvious of these. This is the cause, indeed, which shows, by its absence, why most critics of the Iraq war or of anything else don't murder people when they are angry. It is the fanatical, fundamentalist belief system which teaches hatred and justifies these acts of murder. That cause somehow gets a free pass from the hunters-out of causes.

...One thing seems to be the treatment of those who practice terror as though they were part of some natural environment we have to take as given - not themselves free and responsible agents, but like a vicious dog or a hive of bees. If we do anything that provokes them, that must make us morally responsible, for they can be expected to react as they do. If this isn't a form of covert racism, then it's a kind of diminishing culturalism and is equally insulting to the people transformed by it into amoral beings incapable of choice or judgment.

...There are apologists among us, and they have to be fought intellectually and politically. They do not help to strengthen the democratic culture and institutions whose benefits we all share. Because we believe in and value these, we have to contend with what such people say. But contend with is precisely it. We have to challenge their excuses without let-up. 

Read the longer version of this article on his website here: http://normblog.typepad.com/normblog/2005/07/apologists_amon.html


Nailed It!
Moral Clarity BUMP !

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23 posted on 07/21/2005 10:23:16 AM PDT by Tolik
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1

What the press doesn't understand is that when they begin to apply moral equivalance tests to terrorism...justifying it for whatever reason, they make it justifiable far any reason. When Ken Livingstone (Mayor of London) says it's OK for the Palenstinians to use suicide bombers (for whatever perverted reasoning) against Israel, he makes it acceptable to use them in London. Amazingly, both he and the press can't see that simply by asking "aren't your policies responsible for the attacks on London, Madrid, NY, etc...that they are giving justification for more attacks.

If the Iraq war is responsible for this terrorism, what was responsible for 9/11...or the USS Cole...or the Millenium plot? Using Liberal-Logic, Bill Clinton would be responsible for those attacks since he not only attacked Iraq, he also hit Afghanistan and Sudan, resulting in a direct declaration of war from Bin-Laden, himself. But wait....weren't those attacks retribution for the attacks on the US Embassies in Africa? If we want, we can continue to make excuses for terrorism all the way back to our initial support of Israel. Unfortunately, Islamic terrorism had existed long before Israel even came into existence.

I'm so sick of hearing why we are the bad guys. What's disgusting about the Left and their excuses for Muslim anger (including Israel) is that they have no historical perspective about these so-called grievances. Islam's anger with the West didn't just start in the last century...and it certainly didn't have anything to do with oil, or even Israel...for that matter.

From its founding, Islam has been an expansionist ideology. For all the whining we hear about the humiliation they suffered over their deconstructed Ottoman Empire, it was they who helped perpetuate its collapse. Heck, the empire was in shambles to begin with because of tribal warfare...but to make things worse, it was the Ottoman Turks who decided to side with Germany in WWI. What became of their empire was no different than what became of the empires of Germany and Austria/Hungary, as these empires were also carved up because of their aggression. To the victors goes the spoils...something that Islam has been intimately familiar with for centuries.

Ironically, with all the excuses given for Islam's hatred of the West and especially the USA, it was the USA who led the way in granting Arab independence following WWII. For all of Europe's consternation of US imperialism infringing on the Mid-East, it was Europe who helped create the very divisions that exists today. While the League of Nations and the victors of WWI did take special interest in the crumbling Ottoman Empire...instituting mandates to be governed by Britain and France, the Muslims of this region have no one to blame but themselves. This was a group of people who were engaged in the worst holocaust against indigenous people outside of that which occurred in Germany in WWII (surprise...many Muslims sided with Hitler).

From the Christian Assyrians to the Armenians to the Greeks, Slavs and Jews...Muslims had been ethnically cleansing Asia Minor of non-Muslims for centuries. As this threat encroached further into the "soft underbelly of Europe," the victors of WWI decided it was time to put a stop to this 2nd Jihad, which had not only killed millions of people, but was continuing to threaten Europe...again.

Yes, Muslims can bitch and moan, and play the perpetual victim of so-called European colonization...and Leftists can defend them and help make excuses for their hatred and anger to help ease their guilt; but remember, that it was Islam who invited this reaction by their own aggressions that went unchecked for centuries...including their further alliances with Hitler in WWII.

This was a religion, that within its first 100 years, conquered more land and people than the Romans did in their storied history. Amazingly, liberals seem to only have a short historical memory when it comes aggression and retribution. And here's some irony about Islam's hatred for the Great Satan. For all the abuse America takes from these ingrates, it was America who led the way in pressuring Europe to recognize Arab independence after WWII. The Atlantic Charter, which proposed giving power to the people to determine their own governments and boundaries, was one of the first steps in moving the Mid-East away from their former mandates and colonial heritage "iniated by Europe." It was Europe...and even the UN, who were the major architects in planning the fate of Mid-East statehood even after WWII.

During the Suez Crisis, it was America who recognized Egypt's right to nationalize the Suez Canal...despite the fact that both France and Britain had purchased those rights earlier and financed its construction. The same can be said for the oil production in these lands, which were also expropriated after Western nations invested millions of dollars in these infrastructures and technology, since these people didn't have the skill to do it. Sure, America also had it's own interest in this region...but those interests only became relevant when, again, some Muslim nations decided to side with the enemies of humanity (USSR). For all the whining about their oppression, it has been their leaders that have sided with some of the worst tyrants throughout history.

From the Muslim secessionist movement in India (Pakistan) to financial and military aid during the Cold War and support in the Gulf War, Americans have naively stood with Muslims and defended them against aggressor nations and persons. In our own naivety and ignorance, we have even supported Muslims against Christians, whether it was the Muslim secessionist movement in Kosovo and the Balkans...or stopping such Christian movements from occurring in Indonesia/East Timor. Heck, after a decade of complete appeasement, with financial and military aid going to Muslim governments that we knew were also committing atrocities against minority populations (Turkey, Albania/Balkans and Indonesia)...we still got attacked on 9/11.

While Muslims like to lament the further division of their territories following the World Wars, these were necessary acts to thwart continuing tribal and religious differences...not to mention the threat that this "empire" posed before its division. The truth is, Muslims not only have a problem living among non-Muslims...they have a problem living among themselves, as many have butchered their own. One of the reasons for the creation of these artifical boundaries in the Mid-East, was to protect Muslims from other Muslims.

One of the biggest hoaxes perpetrated by the Left is their reporting of Israeli violence against the Palestinians, when their own Arab brethren have committed far worse atrocities against them. Heck, the number-one killer of Muslims, are Muslims...with Saddam right up there at the top.

From a historical perspective, America has a very short history with the Mid-East. And on many of those occasions, this relationship was one of support...whether it was our leadership in their independence, or our support for them against Soviet encroachment and aggression. Yet, today, we are not only called the Great Satan by these same people, we are blamed for the origins of much of these problems by those who were the original architects....Europe. The fact that the Left has not only re-wrote the history books but has perpetuated this lie in defense of terrorism makes these people as dangerous as those who are attacking us.


24 posted on 07/21/2005 10:44:32 AM PDT by cwb
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To: Pikamax

Deport the Muslimes.

Then hang George Galloway and Red Ken.


25 posted on 07/21/2005 11:12:10 AM PDT by Alouette (Just when I think liberals can't get any more stupid, I'm wrong.)
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To: pbrown

I will be holding the Left accountable for those casualties... and also the handful of isolationists on the right - all who believe their own pet causes are more important than the survival of our civilization.


26 posted on 07/21/2005 11:45:21 AM PDT by thoughtomator (Abortion kills liberals)
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To: cwb

Very good post!

Thanks


27 posted on 07/21/2005 12:20:25 PM PDT by Tolik
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To: Tolik

Hannity called this required reading. Well done!


28 posted on 07/21/2005 1:00:54 PM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (The High Priest of Baby Killers. People don't call Schumer 'Upchuck' for nothing.)
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To: John Filson

we need to develop protocols with Russia on this

Right the russians have been oh so successful in their war.


29 posted on 07/21/2005 8:18:45 PM PDT by Valin (The right to do something does not mean that doing it is right.)
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