Posted on 07/16/2005 5:01:08 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
I happen to believe that politics is circular. There comes a point when the extreme left and extreme right meet each other and more or less conglomerate into one big mess of extremism. In Internet community terms, consider the similarities in behavior between Democratic Underground and Free Republic. I think you'll find, if this is true, that there's a point where actually the ideologies are the furthest apart. When you have mainstream political debate pushing towards those points, not the farthest to the extreme mind you, that's when you have real divisiveness.
You have the MoveOn.org/Daily Kos crowd on the left, and you have the Christian Coalition/The American Cause crowd on the right. They are all cannibals of some sort, though I must admit that MoveOn.org is pretty good about not ripping into other Democratic candidates, and they represent basically the "mainstream extremes," which is to say that they represent those points of view that are diametrically opposed to one another and, in circular politics, are the most distant.
We have a lot of folks who are subscribing to those kinds of opinions these days, and so politics appears more shrill and divisive - perhaps moreso than it has ever been before. Could Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill be friendly after 5 PM in the political world of 2005?
Ask yourself this - could George W. Bush and Nancy Pelosi, were she Speaker of the House? I seem to find it unlikely; not because Bush hates Pelosi, but because Pelosi seems to genuinely dislike the President, and the President's supporters would rip him to shreds were he to befriend a San Francisco liberal like Pelosi.
For a long time, politics really did exist mostly in the mainstream. The candidates always seem to be somewhere near the center, where most politics takes place at least in the Beltway. Their supporters, however, used to come from wide swaths of the population. They were not extremists.
That has begun to change. Extremists are going to the polls and voting in primaries for candidates who, in previous years, might not have ever received the time of day. Truly, what business does US Sen. Russ Feingold of Wisconsin have in running for President in 2008? A divorcee and unabashed liberal, in previous elections he wouldn't be able to raise any money, or maybe even get on ballots. But in 2008, he might have a legitimate shot at the nomination - not because the time is right for his ideas, but because the time is right for extremists to get another nominee in the mold of George McGovern in 1972.
Republicans have the same problem. Will they nominate someone like US Sens. Sam Brownback of Kansas or Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania? Both could be considered mainstream extremists of the Free Republic variety, though Brownback has the ability, unlike Santorum, to think before he speaks. What of Tom Tancredo, a militant opponent to illegal immigration? No other candidate is likely to take up his cause in 2008, and he may stick with it Pat Buchanan-style up until the nomination, then give a rousing, and probably offensive, speech to the party convention.
Could 2008 be a matchup between Democratic Underground and Free Republic? No, probably not. But it may be a matchup between Daily Kos and the Christian Coalition, trading barbs about who is evil rather than who is best for America.
For the sake of our country, we have to take politics back from the extremists who can be found lurking behind the scenes, agitating and causing the degradation of our political culture. It's not a coincidence that things have gotten so bad in Washington over the past decade. New, alternative media like blogs and talk radio have given extremists on both sides an opportunity to be heard loudly.
When professional writers comment about the "echo chamber" of blogs, they are usually trying to snipe at one particular blog or another where it's suggested that there is no difference of opinion. These are usually Republican blogs since, as everyone knows, there is less disagreement and dissent on the surface within Republican communities. But let me make the statement, quite authoritatively in fact, that the true echo chamber exists within the blog community itself.
In the blog community as a whole, profanity and extremism are considered the norm. RedState.org is a fine example of keeping politics respectful and professional, by and large, and it ought to be commended for doing so. On the left, MyDD is my favorite blog, replacing TPM Cafe which I can no longer use due to my new Mac causing display issues with posts, because they too tend to forego much of the extremist, profane, and offensive banter.
We ought to be doing more to try to make the mainstream media realize that Daily Kos, Free Republic, and Democratic Underground do not speak for us, at large, as bloggers. The fact that Markos Moulitsas was invited to the FEC to speak about the freedom of bloggers, along with RedState's own Mike Krempasky, shows that he is considered one of the more prominent bloggers on the web. Why we, as members of the larger blog community, have allowed ourselves to be linked with this man of questionable decency, I do not know.
We knew Powell wasn't going anywhere when liberals demanded his resignation. We know Ashcroft and Rumsfeld wouldn't resign, either. And we knew that this business about Rove was cooked up nonsense.
The same can't be said for the kooks at Democratic Underground or any other liberal site.
Yeah...what NormsR said in 17. And furthermore, FR never claimed to SPEAK FOR this idiot author. Saler can go kick a different straw man......and stuff him up his......
FR extreme? What a joke, we support a President who won with 62 Million votes. That's 62 Million Americans who this dizzy author would call extremists!
Fine and dandy; But Tim has obviously informed me, certainly, that while his theory on "circularity of politics" is correct; he's clueless about what's really going on, politically, within the groups he denigrates "unitedly". His knowledge base on the groups he slams in his article... is about headline deep.
My chem teacher told me to my face that Free Republic is an extremist website, when I was surfing it in class. She thinks I'm insane, and that if I did any community service, I'd become a compassionate liberal... Well, I finished my Eagle Scout today, and I'm still a conservative. I think your forum's great.
You always get to the heart of the matter - thanks!
Jim, you do know that this is false right? You could have testified. I could have testifed. All we had to do was ask.
As I thought....a punk without a job.
"Could Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill be friendly after 5 PM in the political world of 2005?
Ask yourself this - could George W. Bush and Nancy Pelosi, were she Speaker of the House? I seem to find it unlikely; not because Bush hates Pelosi, but because Pelosi seems to genuinely dislike the President, and the President's supporters would rip him to shreds..."
What stands out about this passage? "... Pelosi seems to genuinely dislike the President." Notice this same presumtion of hatred of the opponent is not extended towards President Bush. I believe that he is a decent Christian and could easily be friendly towards her, despite the ire and nausea it might provoke in some of us. The hatred is on the left.
It speaks volumes of him that this unintended compliment regarding his character should be recorded by the author of the article.
"Extreme" thanks for the post. I had never read that before, and appreciate it very much.
I for one will never "make nice" with those who my some violent twist of emotion, lost their ability to reason and accept the foundations of this country and it's intrinsic goodness. You'd have a better chance taking a tin of corn muffins to a suicide bomber.
Yes, I've noticed a widespread use of profanity on the DU. Do they claim to be family-friendly too? I expect that if I started using swear words (often the F) on FR that I would be at least temporarily suspended. I would hope that the DU would hold the same high standard, but I suppose it's a violation of our first amendment... /sarc
Mr. Saler looks to be about 12.
There is more than enough money now. Each election is just grows and grows.
Actually, Jim, I think that only voters should be able to contribute whatever they want. But no contributions from PACs, Corporations, Labor Unions, foreign countries or other non-voters. Free speech money for citizen voters not for non-citizen artificial entities.
Those elected should be responsible to citizens, not PACs,
Sorry to hear that the idea of defending our borders would somehow be offensive to people.
Thanks, Jim -- we need to keep an eye on these yahoos.
Brilliant comment, Eagle! You literally took the words right "off of my fingers!" I was about to type the same comment, but you saved me the trouble!
Someone should tell this author of "Circular Politics" that....."It's the CONSTITUTION, STUPID!"
Thanks for posting this article, Mr. Robinson!
Char :)
I've said it before, "Just because you can do something, it doesn't mean you should."
He is a Democrat and writes from Philadelphia,
Oy, I really want out of this city!
Maybe I'm wrong but to call Free Republic Extreme is to call the Constitution extreme. Yes we have some very differing ideas and strong opinions but just about everything on this site revolves around the idea of a return Classical Liberalism, thats what we are trying to conserve..IMO. Anyone who says that is extreme must willing to compromise with our Founding principles. Yes some threads become extreme at times because they are largely free discussion among Conservatives and the occasional troll, but that is in large part because we don't compromise our position for the sake the middle? How does that saying go? Half way between right and wrong is still wrong.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.