Thunderclouds in China ... A Storm is Brewing ...

self | 15 June, 2005 | joanie-f

[RightWhale]

That is the question of our time!

Sure, but what should we do? Get out of the cities? Go live in cornfields?

[Jeff Head]

NO doubt Japan would get involved.

My guess is, just as with WWII, there would be significant ground fighting...major ground fioghting...if it ever got going in a big way, ie. WWIII. I believe every Islamic Fundamental regime, those regimes in S. America cozing up to the Chinese, and who knows whom else would jump in on one side or the other.

Not a pretty picturte at all...but sadly, unless we pull a Reagan style, in your face, challenege very soon that backs these people down...I am afraid it is shaping up that way, and pray most earnestly that I am wrong.

[joanie-f]

We should contact our elected officials, demand to know the extent of their knowledge regarding both the China nuclear threat and the potential devastating effects of an EMP attack. If they are uneducated, we should demand that they educate themselves.

We should write letters to the editor of our local/regional newspapers.

We should inform as many family/friends/acquaintances/co-workers, etc.

About two months ago, I printed out information similar to this post and placed it in the office mailboxes of many of my co-workers (at least those who exhibit a glimmer of interest in what is going on in the world). I would say roughly three-quarters of them came to me, either with questions they wanted clarified, or asking if they could reproduce the information to give to others.

If a sufficient numbers of citizens are informed about the magnitude of this threat, our elected representatives can’t continue to turn a blind eye, and perhaps (just perhaps) nonsense issues (a la the Karl Rove witch hunt) will fade into obscurity, and we’ll start homing in on genuine threats to our safety and sovereignty.

I live in a staunchly conservative area of the country, so I don’t believe the above response to my small effort to awaken those around me is necessarily representative of what the response would be elsewhere. To be honest, I believe most adult Americans are too lazy and apathetic to inform themselves about such a threat, even when the information is placed before them. So I suppose I am a pessimist as regards any positive, long-term answer to your question.

But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t still do all that we can to awaken the sleeping, and suggest that they demand effective governance from our national leadership. A two step solution will be needed: (1) making the populace aware and outraged enough to call for action (I figure there’s a 20% chance of success in that endeavor), and then (2) forcing our leadership to heighten our preparedness where it is wanting (I figure there’s another 20% chance of that).

I’ve been called a pessimist, but I prefer to label the above a healthy dose of realism.

~ joanie

[Eastbound]

Here's the Amazon.com link to "HERO,"

and here's one of the websites for the movie.

By all means, watch it ..... and think 'nano weapons' when you see the arrows.

[MississippiMan]

Treat Red China the way Reagen treated and brought down the Soviet evil empire, and do it forthwith. It will be painful, but not nearly as painful as the consequences of failing to do so.

Jeff, I fervently agree. But it ain't gonna happen. We have NO leadership now or on the horizon that appears remotely interested in dealing realistically with China. I know that's an ominous statement, but it's true. And the longer we maintain the status quo, the more difficult--if not impossible--it will become to deal with in the future. I never cease to be amazed by people smart enough to rise to the presidency and other national leadership positions, who conversely haven't the ability to see the most blatantly obvious truths.

MM

[joanie-f]

THANK YOU! I will see if our local Blockbuster has a copy (fat chance). If not, I will get one myself, and circulate it to those who would appreciate and comprehend.

[superiorslots]

Quote: Bill CLinton = The Manchurian Candidate


Bush= The Manchurain Candidate Pupil

[Jeff Head]

I pray you are wrong and that such a leader does come along. Reagan came along when many beleived someone like him was not possible.

As to the leaders not knowing...I believe they do. They either fail to act because they believe it would be a political disaster...or they have interests of their own tied up with the economic situation that they fear to lose...or they have issues in their past or present which have neutered them through blackmail...or they feel that the threat is overblown...or they are side tracked by other issues and do not put enough effort into it...or, they are seeking to profit from their (the enemy's) gain...or, finally, they are are abjectly and ideologically aligned and in bed with the enemy and represent manchurian candidates and the worst sort of sappers within our own perimeter. But I do not personally believe they can get to where they are and be wholly ignorant of the situation.

[GOP_1900AD]

What we should do:
1) Go like hell on completing NMD
2) Revive the Civil Defense Program
3) Beef up attack sub fleet even more than the current POR
4) Massively beef up ASW capabilities (or more accurately, vastly speed up the already planed revamping)
5) Find and expell PRC agents and infilitrators
6) Stop tolerating all aid given to terror states and terrorists by the PRC and Pakistan and publicly call them on it
7) Incrementally shut off trade with the PRC while in parallel ramping up trade with India, Thailand, Philippines, and Chile
8) Recreate SEATO but this time replacing Pakistan with India and adding in Taiwan, Japan and Israel
9) Conduct a major review of all military systems for EMP withstanding capability and undertake a crash retrofit program
10) Revive work on IRBMs - sub launched (already planned, witness recent work awarded to Lockheed - Martin), sea surface launched, air drogue launched (note past successful demo of this with an ICBM at Vandenberg) and TEL launched. Yes, that would mean that we are tearing up the INF Treaty. The INF Treaty is rubbish - Pakistan, Iran, the PRC, DPRK and a number of other soon to be nuclear states are non signatories, putting us and *our forward deployed forces* at a distinct disadvantage. Plus, I strongly suspect that some of the former Soviet states are cheating on it.

How's that for an action plan? ;)

[superiorslots]

Quote: But it ain't gonna happen. We have NO leadership now or on the horizon that appears remotely interested in dealing realistically with China.



Their pursestrings are controlled by big business who want cheap labor. Big corporations today have loyalty to no nation.

[GOP_1900AD]

Yes of course, good properly grounded enclosures with very good EMI/RFI gasketing are also needed. Ground loops will wipe you out.

[Teacher317]

"Nuclear subs are immune to EMP. Immune."
Not too many of us can fit in the subs of the world.
That's not going to make a dent for 300 million people.

Why do people need to get into submarines for an EMP pulse?!

(Nothing like a little hysterical article to make people lose focus)

[GOP_1900AD]

I would not discount the possibility that we'll have to pull off a D-Day into SE Asia.

[GOP_1900AD]

Or, they see the truths, but are precluded by systemic issues much larger than even The President, from taking action. For example, look at the realpolitik regarding the 2006 and 2008 elections. If the GOP pisses off the fair weather Transnational Progressives of the business community by cracking down seriously on the entire group of - as Bodansky calls them - sponsoring states - of terror (including the PRC) then they'll support the Dims. How can one reconcile the need to keep the Dims out with national security needs that would mean sacrifices by the business community? It's not completely straight forward.

[Teacher317]

I would not discount the possibility that we'll have to pull off a D-Day into SE Asia.

"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous is: Never get involved in a land war in Asia. Only slightly less well know is this:"

[Minuteman23]

Nothing like a little hysterical article to make people lose focus

Are all of the committee members on the congressional committee who issued the report linked in this article "hysterical"?

Are all of the respected military, scientific, and political people who are quoted in this article "hysterical"?

Get real.

[downwithsocialism]

And the bottom line is that now, in 2005, as a result of the treasons of 1993-2000, the power and technological advantage enjoyed by the Chinese is probably, in large part, the result of (bartered for political support) research reports, design specifications, computer models and hi-tech machinery provided by the United States. And, when we are called upon – most likely within the next two years – to defend Taiwan, we will find ourselves confronting an enemy largely armed to the teeth by one of our own Presidents.

Our men will die, our weaponry and equipment will be blown up, and freedom-loving nations will find themselves facing an ominous predator unlike any the world has ever known … in large part because of William Jefferson Clinton’s thirst for power, allegiance to a leftist political agenda … and obsessive desire to manufacture a personal legacy.

Thank you for reminding us. I despise him more than ever now.

[Jeff Head]

Watched the teaser, the trailer, amd the features. Will get the DVD.

[GOP_1900AD]

Sometimes, one needs to do unthinkable things. I am sure that similar things were said back around 1942 and 43 regarding retaking Europe. But if the PRC took SE Asia (including the Strait of Malacca and Indonesia) then we'd have no choice but to try at some point to take it back. War is hell.

[RightWhale]

The problem is that a pronouncement came from on high just as the Civil Defense shelter program was allowed to die saying that the shelters would prove to be useless in the long run. Since the idea--that a nuclear war is in general going to eventually kill most everybody no matter what--is firmly placed in our subconscious so that most people fear the fallout clouds more than they do the initial blast and fire and don't even want a nuclear power plant near their town, most people are doing nothing to prepare but are relying on either a version of SALT or MAD [some kind of destructive interference is going on between those two opposed philosophies] to protect the country. At the same time, this threat of instantaneous thermonuclear destruction without warning of even our archives has been given expression in the free-floating value system and MTV.

I blame that pronouncement. But placing blame and educating our leaders [!] is something the Internet seems to be designed for. It is not designed for action. Should we not all build fallout shelters and stock them? We did that before the pronouncement, the pronouncement was deliberate and in error. We should return to the earlier idea, start digging again, and latch onto some of the older values of the time before MTV and the Internet.