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Posted on 07/14/2005 9:13:31 PM PDT by HAL9000
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Presidential confidant Karl Rove testified to a grand jury that he learned the identity of a CIA operative originally from journalists, then informally discussed the information with a Time magazine reporter days before the story broke, according to a person briefed on the testimony.The person, who works in the legal profession and spoke only on condition of anonymity because of the secrecy of grand jury proceedings, told The Associated Press that Rove testified last year that he remembers specifically being told by columnist Robert Novak that Valerie Plame, the wife of a harsh Iraq war critic, worked for the CIA.
Rove testified that Novak originally called him the Tuesday before Plame's identity was revealed in July 2003 to discuss another story. The conversation eventually turned to former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, who was strongly criticizing the Bush administration's Iraq war policy and the intelligence it used to justify the war, the source said.
The person said Rove testified that Novak told him he had learned and planned to report in a weekend column that Wilson's wife, Plame, had worked for the CIA, and the circumstances on how her husband traveled to Africa to check bogus claims of alleged nuclear material sales to Iraq.
Novak's column, citing two Bush administration officials, appeared six days later, touching off a political firestorm and leading to a federal criminal investigation into who leaked Plame's undercover identity. That probe has ensnared presidential aides and reporters in a two-year legal battle.
Rove told the grand jury that by the time Novak had called him, he believes he had similar information about Wilson's wife from another reporter but had no recollection of which reporter had told him about it first, the source said.
When Novak inquired about Wilson's wife working for the CIA, Rove indicated he had heard something like that, according to the source's recounting of the grand jury testimony.
Rove told the grand jury that four days later, he had a phone conversation with Time magazine reporter Matt Cooper and _ in an effort to discredit some of Wilson's allegations _ told Cooper that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA, though he never used her name.
An e-mail Cooper recently provided the grand jury shows Cooper reported to his magazine bosses that Rove had described Wilson's wife in a confidential conversation as someone who "apparently works" at the CIA.
Robert Luskin, Rove's attorney, said Thursday his client truthfully testified to the grand jury and expected to be exonerated.
"Karl provided all pertinent information to prosecutors a long time ago," Luskin said. "And prosecutors confirmed when he testified most recently in October 2004 that he is not a target of the investigation."
Rove's conversation with Cooper took place five days after Wilson suggested in a New York Times opinion piece that some of the intelligence related to Iraq's nuclear weapons program was twisted to exaggerate the Iraqi threat. Novak's column identifying Wilson's wife as a CIA employee and Cooper's magazine piece came out a few days later.
Pressed to explain its statements of two years ago that Rove wasn't involved in the leak, the White House refused to do so this week.
"If I were to get into discussing this, I would be getting into discussing an investigation that continues and could be prejudging the outcome of the investigation," McClellan said.
(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
I certainly haven't seen any sweat on the guy.
I completely agree with that assessment. Her supervisor was on Hannity last night and did not sound like she was a Jane Bond. He said her cover started to unravel "as soon as she met Joe Wilson."
Nope. The most despicable POTUS was Andrew Johnson, another Democrat.
I would title their meeting as " Fool meets Fool." Fate sometimes puts two deserving people like them together. NSNR
Not only was Wilson a poor choice for the assignment (even without all his asinine bloviating in the past two years), but why won't the MSM take any look at all of the really important aspects of this case: Wilson's pitiful report, the fact that it DOES provide some (limited) support for the belief that Iraq was interested in obtaining Niger uranium, the fact that Wilson has mis-represented everything about the "16 words" in the Bush SOU address (which referred to what BRITISH intelligence believed then and perhaps still does believe), etc. etc. Also, much more about his wife's role in this whole thing needs to be dragged into the public view - e.g., did Plame manipulate this in any way to propound her own views on WMD in the media (perhaps blowing her own cover if she had any)??? Is this all Wilson's bloviating hot air or does he represent to any degree any position(s) his wife has taken within the agency? Is this a new form of bureaucratic warfare, taken public??
How can we get the media focus back to where it should have been in the first place, the fraudulent campaign which Wilson and friends have waged to obfuscate and distort???? Wilson's original (July 6, 2003) op-ed piece should have been blown out of the water immediately by a competent MSM - he was calling the WH a bunch of liars on the Niger issue when Wilson's own report did NOTHING to contradict the "16 words" in the SOU address. Wilson's campaign has been a fraud from start to finish.
Could minor Ambassador Joe Wilson himself have been the source in blowing his own Wife's "cover" (even if she had not been a covert CIA agent at the time of the alleged "leaks")?
It is distinctly possible, (though it may be unlikely that Joe Wilson himself directly was NY Times Judith Miller's source), since Joe Wilson himself evidently routinely bragged openly to strangers about her CIA employment, prior to such "cover" being "blown" in the press.
Here's an example of Joe's apparently routine and open bragging about Valerie being a "CIA agent," which became known directly to me over a year ago:
He certainly bragged about it per a famous and highly reliable source's (named below) account of his own face-to-face encounter with Amb. Joe Wilson prior to Valerie Plame's "outing" as a CIA agent/employee.
Based upon a personal conversation (we were in a small group eating; it was NOT an "off the record") I had with eminent historian Victor Davis Hanson (we were at a luncheon table together during a trip to Europe), it appeared entirely possible that Joe Wilson himself was the (or one source, if not the original one) possible source in revealing his own wife's status as a CIA agent or employee.
Victor Davis Hanson (Wilson presumably knew Victor Davis Hanson wrote regularly for NRO (National Review Online), had done OpEds for the Wall street Journal, and other publications, and had his own Website with a widespread following) said he (VDH) & Joe Wilson were both in the same "Green Room" before a televised debate-discussion on Iraq, etc. and Joe first warned the TV make-up person not to get powder on his $14,000 Rolex watch, then he bragged to Victor about several things (possessions and trips to Aspen, etc.), like his expensive car (I think it was a Mercedes), and then bragged about his beautiful ("hot") wife who, Joe Wilson said (braggingly) was a CIA operative.
I asked Victor Davis Hanson Why he didn't write up this account.(?) He replied that Joe Wilson would probably simply deny it, since only he (VDH) & Joe Wilson were in the Green Room together before the broadcast.
However, it is now easy to surmise that Joe Wilson is a crass, materialistic, self-promoting, vain, egotistical, bragaddocio-opportunist, so this account is perfectly consistent with Valerie Plame's TWO photo shoots in Vanity Fair.
Well, you know that Karl Rove is an evil darl lord that planned this all along...or something like that.
;-)
Are you nuts?
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Your points are what we have to keep reminding people about, or--we have to stop discussing it at all.
Rush said he was going to put the final nail in the coffin---fine. But did that really happen? Steyn wrote a piece about how the Wilson-Plame affair is a nonissue in the big scheme of things. Is it really a nonissue?
Our talking heads are saying this story is going nowhere-but the story isn't exactly going away.
As long as the story is around, we should be reminding every critic to pay attention to the relevant facts, which are exactly the points you laid out.
I believe that certain factions in the CIA (maybe including Plame herself) believed they would get Cheney's office out of their hair by neutralizing his involvement. Bureacratic warfare is exactly what I think initiated most of this, and Wilson loves the attention to the extent he will milk it for all it's worth.
Everyone who can do research, or writing to editors and reporters, please keep after the whole Wilson-Corn-Plame-gate scandal because there is FAR FAR more to this than we have been told so far.... and the bloviating Wilson must be exposed for the charlatan he is. Far more importantly, if this is (as seems plausible) an attempt by Plame or others to manipulate the US election with false stories, that is HUGE! duh.....
We need to be all over the forged documents aspect, what did Wilson know and when/HOW did he know it? Did his wife leak classified info to him in their pillow talk (more likely with complete malice aforethought as a co-conspirator)? Is Valerie Plame a leaker to Judith Miller and/or other reporters, was Valerie manipulating this story, and even worse are there larger players such as the French, Saudis, etc. pulling the strings behind the curtain??
We already know much about Wilson's 'report' and subsequent op-ed column (not to mention his book) is a fraud - he never should have been sent on this 'mission' and his report was bogus and he never should have pretended to the public that his conversations over "sweet mint tea" could ever possibly disprove anything about Iraq seeking uranium from Niger.
Yet, most of the media has totally failed to investigate the grave problems with the original Wilson report and then his attendance at caucus of Democratic pols in May 2003 where he first met Nicholas Kristof and began his bloviating to the media. What are Wilson's ties and contacts with various reporters and Democratic Party figures, especially in May-June-July 2003 as the story unfolded?? Was his wife present when he met Nick Kristof and was she already helping to 'blow' any cover she may have had by cooperating with him in his madcap adventures with the media??
Every reporter who might have received info from Wilson BEFORE the David Corn column appeared identifying Valerie Plame as a secret CIA agent needs to be pressed to fess up - once Wilson is shown to be a liar and manipulator of the story, there is no ethical claim for various reporters to continue to protect him as a source, is there? I would think that journalistic ethics should require that reporters unmask and debunk a source who has been shown to be lying to and manipulating them.
In addition to the fact that Wilson had not the slightest competence or experience as an investigator, his original NY Times op-ed was deeply flawed by his assumption that anything he heard in his days in Niger could possibly disprove Iraqi interest in Niger uranium. No one in the media seems to be noticing that Wilson changed the standard from whether there was any Iraqi interest in uranium (all that was asserted in the reference to British intelligence in the infamous "16 words" of the Bush SOU address) to whether there had been actual SALE of uranium. Even the latter could not be disproved by Wilson's sessions over sweet mint tea, and he certainly could not disprove whether there had been any secretive Iraqi approaches about uranium - Wilson's account assumes that some official(s) in Niger, involved in any discussion of illegal uraniums sales (possibly smuggling for private gain??), would simply volunteer this information to a visting US former diplomat. It is preposterous on the face of it that Wilson's mission could possibly settle the policy and intelligence debate, yet he has gone on now for 2+ years pretending that he, Joe Wilson, established the facts and the WH ignored them.
Wilson's report only added some 2nd-hand support to the concerns about Iraq and Niger uranium, though he was too dense to realize it, because he did relay the information that "Baghdad Bob" himself had tried to initiate trade talks with Niger.... since Niger has exactly ONE export that could be of any potential interest to Saddam (besides uranium, the other options for Niger's potentially booming trade relations with Baghdad are "livestock, cowpeas, onions"). Just think, maybe they wanted the uranium, not the cowpeas!
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ng.html
Now we need someone to find out whether Valerie had any further role in this boondoggle - i.e., did she go on the trip (was it a taxpayer funded scam), did she have anything to do with producing his report, did she use him to further any sort of position she was taking within the CIA vis-a-vis WMDs???? Perhaps this was taking bureaucratic warfare among analysts within the CIA to a new level, especially if it was Valerie who termed the idea of Iraq seeking Niger uranium a "crazy report" when she first recommended her husband for the mission....
OR, (VERY LIKELY) Jack Kelly's suggestion is correct and this whole manipulated story was all about throwing the 2004 election to Kerry? It all fits - now we have to piece together all the details and raise hell, because the MSM certainly won't pursue the story without massive pressure.
Listening to Rush right now, it sounds like the MSM is going under, grasping for anything.
You mean ... Novak actually engaged in (gasp) Journalism?!!?
And not just talking point regurgitation to benefit the Democrats and hurt the Republicans?
Ah, the real scandal reveals itself!
. . .has an 'Algore WINS' feeling to it. . .
If 'wishes were horses'. . .every Demrat would ride. . .
They are in line, right behind Sandy Berger. . .
Agree that Valerie would fail the 'WPB' test for sure.
I read that Plame was not 'deep cover''. What the Agency knew then; we all know now. . ..
She, herself, disclosed her 'idenity' when she gave campaign contribution to Algore. . .listed her 'cover name' - rather than married; and disclosed name of CIA 'front organization' as her place of employment.
Either too late smart, this woman. . .or not at all.
. . .and I do not think anyone will ever say re Valerie - better late than never.
as per posted article[ Posted article at FR; Joseph Wilson's Amazing Left-Wing Dreamland//FrontPageMagazine.com ^ | July 22, 2005 | Ben Johnson]
Phlame a CIA Idiotic Democrat. Here are some democrat word definitions for all to view. (Demo-commie mindset)
Fortified Compound= a plywood shack or country cabin in a rural area.
Machinegun= a single barreled one shot rifle or shotgun.
Terrorist Militia group= two or three white Southern boys out squirrel hunting.
Explosive device= a pack of 32 Blackcat fire-crackers.
Hate speech= when one disagrees with a communist.
Rape= consensual sex.
Mean spirited= when one defends their point of view.
Communism= the American dream.
Capitalism= stealing and empowering only the rich.
Legalized murder= Abortion
The Opiate of the masses= Religion.
Perjury= misspeaking under self incrimination.
Marriage= mam&man or woman&woman
War Hero= J'Fn' scary kerry.
Democratic role model= Ted kennedy
Most truhful&innocent POTUS= billy blythe klintoon.
Greatest Spiritual Advisor= Jesse (Race Card) jackassacon.
Best dressed woman in the world= shrillary black pant suit(old crusty)nver change klintoon.
World's worst threat= Patriotic Americans.
Gentile Role Models= Islamic muslims (terrorists)
I hope you liked my word analogies and Plame was about as undercover as Nimpty Stimp the Tennis Shoe Pimp.
Cricket you are clear, concise and to the point on your post. I doubt Plame could pass an elementary school crossing guard mentality test. NSNR
Who did pick Valerie for Agency employ. . .(Clinton? Did I miss that?) and more importantly, 'why'. . .
Who did she travel with. . .
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